As shoot fighting gets more exposure in the United States, Japanese promoters are looking for more and more ways to market this very exciting product into the lucrative American market place. What is the best way to put Americans in the seats? How about adding some hometown (or country) stars to their shows? Luckily for these promoters, Americans have been competing in Shoot for quite a while and having much success. The first American fighter to break in to the Japanese Shooto game was Erik Paulson. Paulson has quite a well-rounded resume of Boxing, Muay Thai, Jeet Kune Do, Shoot wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu…and the list goes on and on. He epitomizes what Shooto is, a collection of complete fighters that are as comfortable on their feet as they are on the ground. Currently, Erik holds the Shooto light-heavyweight belt (which he won in May 1996), but has been a bit quiet as of late. He is scheduled to face a very game Lance Gibson in the upcoming FutureBrawl/SuperBrawl on April 15, barring any ludicrous ban of NHB events in Hawaii…but that's another story. I caught up with Erik by phone on Sunday, March 19, 2000.

FCF: I have read your bio and you have quite a list of training credentials. What types of martial arts did you start off all this training with?
Erik Paulson: When I first started, I started with judo and that was in 1974. When I was a kid, I competed and I won my class competition. That was a couple of years, then I began Tae Kwon Do. That was like Tae Kwon Do/American Karate. I used to compete in Karate tournaments and point contact tournaments, like full contact tournaments, and ring fights back in the Midwest, in Minnesota. When I was in 8th grade, I took amateur boxing, golden gloves boxing and I took that for about…all throughout high school. I was a gymnast at the same time. I was competing in boxing and full contact Karate and I still kept up with the Judo. It wasn't so popular back then. Then I got into 1982, I met up with a guy named Rick Fanes and started training in Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, Kali, and Thai boxing. Then in 1989, I moved to the Inosanto Academy and I began training with Dan Inosanto and Yori Nakamura. Actually, in 1988, I came to LA and started training with the Gracies'. So in '88, I began my training with Rorion and Royce and I looked to Larry Hartsell. I began under Larry Hartsell in 1986 and I have been with everybody since then. I was with Rickson for approximately 4 years and the Machados for about 2 years. I've trained with top wrestlers, with Gene LeBell, a little bit with Rico Chiaparelli. He taught me heaps with my fighting. Especially currently, with my wrestling and takedowns. I trained with Rob Kaman for the Muay Thai and Chai in Thai boxing and I had a boxing coach named Charley Gergan. He was my boxing coach down at Boxing Works for a while. I have been going with all those people since then. Lately, it's mostly just been all the guys in my classes. I still train with a guy named Stephanos. He was Rickson's sparring partner a little bit and Chiaparelli. I train with those guys.

FCF: Your present style seems to integrate all these different disciplines very well. Did you find it difficult to integrate these different arts or was it something that just came natural for you?
EP: The shoot wrestling actually made me put it all together more than anything because the synthesis was the hardest, going from standing to ground. I was more of a defensive fighter so I would let them shoot and then I'd end up on the ground and then I'd work from there, whereas lately, I've been working a lot with the wrestlers so I've been doing a lot of throws and takedowns. I've been a little more aggressive, I think, with my fighting, not my last fight, but with my training I have, definitely.

FCF: Since you have trained in so many different arts, it seems that you are on a quest to find the perfect art. Tell me your reasons for studying so many styles when usually a youngster has the tendency to stick to one art for long period of time.
EP: Well, in the beginning, I was more of a martial artist, rather than a fighter. I trained different arts because I had a passion for all these different arts. I had a passion to learn the Filipino arts, to learn the Silat, the Wing Chun, the French Kickboxing, I mean, those were all part, but you're going to kind of pick and choose different pieces from each art and use them in your curriculum and more than anything, I think it's probably your awareness and understanding of what's going to be coming at you, as far as fighting goes. You know, the guy's going to come at you two ways, standing or ground. Either, be attacking, punching and kicking, he's a striker or a grappler. You're going to kind of pick and choose a little bit of both. The kickboxing that we do is integrated. It's Savate and Thai so we call it STX: Savate-Thai cross training because we use principles of both. The grappling is a mixture, it's like combat submission wrestling. It's Greco/Freestyle, Sambo, and Judo throws and then on the ground it's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Shooto, well Shooto is a combination of all those, Catch-as-catch-can, Sambo, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu. That's a mixture of them all. More than anything, it's not about a bunch of arts, it's about high percentage techniques. The things that really work, that you're going to use and try to use repeatedly over and over.

FCF: What sparked your interest to enter the fight game?
EP: Well, at the time when I started, it was more or less, I was seeing more guys out there fighting that weren't really knowledible, I mean, they were tough guys, but they weren't really that knowledible in fighting arts or styles. They just tried a couple things and since a kid, I fought my whole life. My brother was a wrester so I wrestled…everybody goes, "Did you wrestle? Well, I had to," [laughs] because I had to fight my brother all the time and I was a striker from the beginning so we used to have those arguments, who would win, striker or grappler? That kind of inspired it, you know, the fact that my brother was consistently pushing my buttons. He was older so… I showed him a video of the pro shoot fights in Japan and he was like, "No way!" "I'm going to fight in one of those," and he was like, "No way, you're crazy. You'll never fight in one of them." Next thing you know, I'm fighting in them.

FCF: When did you start fighting and how has fighting in Japan changed since you first started fighting there?
EP: 1992, I started. The guys were good at standing and ground. There's more kickboxing and when you clinch and went to the ground, you were allowed to fight on the ground for probably, I don't know, maybe 30 seconds or until there was no more movement. When there's no more movement, they'd break and then you would stand back up so your kickboxing or your standup fighting was very important because you had to have it, or you'd get knocked out. Now it's like, the rules have changed, a couple of punches, maybe a kick or two, and then boom, you hit the ground and they let you stay on the ground. Before then, they never let you stay on the ground. Then, the rules, you know, it's three 5-minute rounds so you're up and down. Your conditioning, I think, at that time, for the up and down fighting, was real difficult. I think some of the hardest training you can do is shoot boxing. Punch, kick, throw, takedown, stand back up, punch, kick, throw, takedown, stand back up. That's how we used to train so the training is now punch, kick, clinch, tackle, ground, position, punch, strikes, and if get submissions, submit, but it's based more on a positioning game now, definitely.

FCF: Tell us about your entry into the Japan fighting scene?
EP: I got offered a fight in 1992, to fight a fight in Japan. I thought it was going to be like a three round amateur, and they go, "no, you're going to fight a five round pro fight." I said, "Five round pro?" And they said, "Yeah, pro fight." And I fought one of their top guys that was their ground guy, but it was funny because I was training hard and I was training with Yori and the Shooto and then I was training with Rickson on the ground stuff and I always knew that the ground would give you the advantage because the guys were not that well versed on the ground as much as they are now. The conditioning game was definitely the key.

FCF: What school and under which instructor did you train at while in Japan?
EP: At the time I was in Japan, I was training a lot at the Super Tiger Gym. It was in Omiya. It was the Shooto gym that they had there. I think Enson [Inoue] bought the gym, I believe. He has Jiu-Jitsu classes there now, but at the time it was called Yunosanto [not Inosanto, I asked] Health Center and they had a Shooto or a pro Shooting gym there. I'd go there for maybe five days before the fight and train and fight. It was good because they had baths, they had saunas, and they had everything there, weight rooms. It was great, you know. You stay in a little dorm and it was actually good training because your mind is clear. You're out in the country. You can't go out anywhere because there's nothing around, so you just focus on their training. It's great.

FCF: Japan is known to be a bit harsh on gaijin [foreigners]. Were you accepted immediately or was there a "breaking in period?"
EP: There was, but even then, you're still a foreigner. Regardless how well you do, they say, "You are a part of us. You are part of Shooto. You are our champion," but no you're not. I mean, I still get challenged by the Japanese all the time, you know, but at the time [I was] coming up, they made me fight all the other gaijin. They were throwing me everyone else. I fought a couple Japanese guys, but they wanted me to fight a lot of the gaijins that used to enter and I'd still feel like an outcast just because they were really promoting the Japanese. They basically want their belts back. That's my personal opinion. [Their] lifestyle's still Shooto, but it's kind of an eclectic, but I'd still say it's like shooting, real Shooto.

FCF: Did you learn Japanese or were you there with translators?
EP: I learned to understand the language a little bit because I wanted to understand what they were saying to me (laughs). Yeah, I learned a little bit, but I feel bad because I've been over there about fifteen times and I still really haven't actually become fluent in their language. Yeah, usually translators through my coach, Yori Nakamura.

FCF: Do you feel that you opened the door to other Americans since you were the first to American to capture a Shooto title?
EP: Definitely, oh definitely. I was the first American to fight in Japan in Shooto. Sayama told me that his goal originally was to actually make Shooto worldwide, world known and have fighters and competitors from all over the world. They asked Chad Stahalsky and I and Yori if we would promote Shooto all over the world to create an interest of fighters that could compete from all over the world to fight their fighters. And when I fought for the belt, Sayama didn't care if it was Japanese or me that won, he was just happy to see that he had outside influences fighting their art and style.

FCF: The Japanese have a tradition of holding their champions in great regard. Did your life style or status change drastically after winning the title, beside the fighting area?
EP: Not really. Number 1, financially you're no different than anyone else because the money's not great money. As far as doors opening, of course, anytime you get a championship title, you're more marketable to the public, to the media. As far as for teaching goes, I think people will listen to you a little bit more when you've accomplished some kind of title or belt. They tend to, I think, probably give you a little more respect because you've actually gone there and fought and done it. Now, I think you have to train harder. You're going to train hard to reach the top, but you have to train harder once you get there.

FCF: How did you meet up Dan Inosanto and start teaching at the Inosanto Academy?
EP: I met up with Dan in 1986. I took a camp from him. When I was a little kid, I used to read all his books. Well, I was interested to train at the academy since I was a little kid, but I got an opportunity to move to LA in uh…well I moved from Minnesota in 1985, I moved to California and in about 1988, I had a chance to move to LA and train at the academy so I did. I started training there and it took me a while, I mean, I trained for at least three years before I ever got an instructorship under him and then considering that I had a ton of training before that, and once he found out that I had an interested, it was the guys at the academy that I was training with that kind of brought me into their circle. It took a while to get warmed up to, I guess. Once I got in, I just kept training and fighting, that's how I started getting some classes to teach, and I've been teaching and training guys there since then.

FCF: What styles do you teach there?
EP: I teach three classes a week. I have valetudo class on Monday, which is free fighting. It's like a lot of conditioning, sparring…well it's like freestyle fighting. We go standing, takedowns and ground, positioning, submissions, and punching on the ground. I teach a kickboxing class, conditioning, sparring, and then I have a submission wrestling class on Tuesday morning there. All takedowns and submissions, no gi.

FCF: You met your shoot wrestling coach Yorinaga Nakamura [1986 Middleweight Shoot wrestling Champion] at the Inosanto Academy. Do the instructors just jump in to each other's classes or is training between the instructors on more of a one to one basis?
EP: Well, at the time I started training, I wasn't an instructor. I mean, I had instructorships in other arts under other people, but I was new to the art and I started training there, there were some other guys training there that were actually teaching at the academy and they jumped in because they saw that it was a good class. It was hard. The information that was taught was really good and so in the beginning, it was like a big class. There were a lot of people. It was hard work and as time progressed, I think, a lot of the older generation instructors have left. There are a lot of newer guys now and your gonna, obviously, as time progresses, you're going to have more one on one training with the instructors, especially if they see you have interest in what they're teaching, but in the beginning it was just a big class and everyone would just jump in and it's real traditional.

FCF: I have read about Yorinaga being the only A-Kyu shooter selected by Satoru Sayama (founder of Shooto). Can you explain this ranking and tell us if promotions are performed in Shoot wrestling?
EP: Well A-Kyu is like the highest ranking. He actually helped Sayama develop his sport in the art. As far as his submissions, Yori Nakamura, to this day, I would still say that he is a submission genius. As far as his knowledge and his ability to put things together, I mean, he is a technical genius. I just see all the stuff he does and even to this day, no matter how much I find, I say, "Wow! The guy has so much information." You know, you can fight as much as you want and get as good as you think you can get, and you know what, there's another side to it. I mean, you have world-class fighters and then you have world-class teachers. He's definitely a world-class teacher. Newer guys now are training newer styles. The training [are] a little different now. They're doing more grappling and stuff. Each gym has their own flavor. Yori definitely keeps a tradition with the old style. He watches all the fights and he's up on all the new things that everybody's training. He's got guys competing still so he's definitely still in the game.

FCF: How did Yori change your grappling and overall fighting style?
EP: He gave me more opportunities. He gave me the knowledge to see more opportunities and ways to finish a person. His ability to put things together from standing to ground is really…his synthesis is real smooth. His ability to go from kickboxing to grappling is streamlined. There's no interruption or pausing. He's straightforward with that and I think that more than anything, he makes you think. All I remember is when I'm on the ground I just hear him, "Attack, attack, attack." If I'm on the ground and playing with somebody, he's goes, "Quit playing, start attacking. You know too many locks to play the game. Don't play, attack." Which is good, you know, but it's based on positioning too. He's changed [me] totally and he's up on all the new stuff too. He's a technical genius.

FCF: Other than not using a gi and the lower body submissions, for example foot locks, heel hooks, etc., how does Yori's style of shoot wrestling differ from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu which is known as a dominant ground grappling art?
EP: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu really stresses the guard and the mount. We train a lot more cross body, which is yoko shiho. We train kesa gatame, which is head and arm, side headlock. 69 position, we call kami shiho. We use a lot of attacks from each of those positions. They has as many upper body attacks as lower body. I would say that Jiu-Jitsu is based more on positioning and the movement, whereas the Shooto, from each position there are several attacks that they teach so it's based more on a submission style art that...I mean Jiu-Jitsu is submission definitely, but it [Shooto] is based more on attacking because at the time it was developed, when you throw the guy and you hit the ground, you only have like, what, 15-30 seconds to finish a guy and if you don't finish him you have to stand back up so it's all based on attacking, very aggressive, turbo ground attacks. I would say that Jiu-Jitsu is take your time, let him make a mistake, capitalize on that person's mistake. Don't let him turn his back. If he turns his back, you're on his back, finish him.

FCF: Do you feel that a fighter should be a competent striking and then add grappling or the other way around?
EP: I think you need both. I think you need both sides of the coin. That's a hard one. I don't know. Look at Maurice Smith. He does good in both and you look at other people. A lot of the wrestlers are doing real well because their accomplished grapplers and teach them how to box a little bit. They stay up on their feet and hit. I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know if I can really answer that one. I think just to have half, just the ground game without the striking is only half the game. I think you need both definitely.

FCF: Do you find it to be more difficult to be competitive in striking or grappling in today's fighting events?
EP: Grappling's the new thing so…there's definitely the strikers out there. There's tournaments going on still. Kickboxing all over, but I think that grapplers have taken it to different level. For instance, you take a blue belt [the second belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu] before, compared to a blue belt today and the information. They have way, way, way more information because today's more of the information age so through videos, and through friends, and the internet, everyone has ways to contact each other and learn new techniques or new training methods. I think the ground game has definitely taken it to a higher level.

FCF: Do you adjust your training for a specific opponent or always prepare the same way?
EP: In the beginning, it's all based on conditioning. Your conditioning, your strength and your endurance, but as time grows closer to the fight, I think that you have to stress, really more than anything, is you got to kind of pin point, you have to watch tapes, you to know what your opponent is strong at and then you have to hone down your skills to like maybe escapes or defenses against what your opponent's going to be good at. I think in the beginning, it's based on conditioning. At the end, it's more of your mental status and basically pin pointing your training to be strong to fight the opponent. Defend against their strong points.

FCF: You have been in the shoot fighting game basically from its infancy and seen many changes. What other changes do you feel fighters and fans can expect in the future?
EP: The game is just changing and there's people from all over the place that are doing it and everyone's level. I just went to an IFC event about 6 months ago and I couldn't believe it. I just said, "Wow!" The level of just the local fighters has just come up. They all just understand the game. There's tons of No-Holds-Barred fighters all over the place now. They obviously seem to be training right because they're doing the right thing. There's a lot of strong guys out there right now. When I was training with Rorion, he said that they're going to change the way that the world looks at martial arts and he totally did that. Rorion totally did what he said that he was going to do. Everyone now does grappling. Most of the guys now are going to grapple. If they weren't grappling, they are now. You got to. Everyone's cross training.

FCF: Shooto is very popular in Japan and the top fighters seem to live very well there. Do you feel that Shoot can make a successful cross over into the American market?
EP: Well, as long as the legislature allows these fights to go on…there's so many places where the boxing commission won't even allow these fights. A sporting event like Shooto would be real popular, but you see even the UFC now has got rules and rounds and things so it's changing to that [Shooto] style of fight anyway so…I think it would be huge, but I don't know if the boxing commission would accept it. I don't think they understand it enough yet. As time progresses, they're going to have to because they are so many people doing it.

FCF: I have not seen you fighting in a while. Is there any reason behind your absence from the fight scene?
EP: No, more than anything…well I haven't been invited back to Japan since my last fight. It's been about a year and a half. Plus, right after my fight, about 4 months after [it], I had surgery on my foot; so, that put me out about 6 months. Other than that, I've been teaching a lot. I've been promoting the art. I've been traveling and teaching and making videos and that's about it. I've just been promoting the art, but I haven't been fighting.

FCF: Does Shooto require their champions to defend the title a certain number of times per year?
EP: I think once a year. They keep changing the rules, but I think it's once a year.

FCF: Your opponent on April 15 [recent date change] is Lance Gibson, who is also a JKD practioner. Do you feel that this is to your advantage since his style may be similar to your own?
EP: Yes, I saw him fight on the Ultimate [UFC] and his style is very similar. He does standing and ground. He's good at both. He's strong, plus, he trains with Matt Hume and I know Matt and his gym real well and Matt and Haru [Shimanishi] train their fighters real good so…I'm expecting to have a good fight.

FCF: What can we expect from Erik Paulson when he steps in the ring against Gibson?
EP: [Laughs] The unexpected, I don't know [more laughter]. You know what, how about a good fight?!

FCF: Since you have been inactive for a while, do you feel that you will be at a disadvantage with the ring rust?
EP: No, no because it's your training. [If] your training is simulated or close to the way you are fighting, then I don't think so. Plus, I'm in the ring all the time training and teaching and sparring so the only difference is changing the level a little bit, you know. Turn up the volume. I can see if you haven't stepped in the ring for a year and a half, oh yeah, of course, but as long as you're staying active, wrestling, sparring, and kickboxing and you're in the ring, and moving around, then I don't see a problem.

FCF: I know everyone would like to see more of Erik Paulson. Any plans to fight more frequently this coming year?
EP: Yes, I would like to. That was kind of a goal. If I was going to fight, then I'm going to fight. If not, then I'm done. So, hopefully this will kick off some more fights coming up this year, definitely.

FCF: Thank you for your time and good luck in SuperBrawl.
EP: Thank you. Thank's Mike.