As the world of NHB becomes more competitive, fighters have begun to seek other styles and trainers in order to improve their game. Pat Miletich seems to attract all types of fighters to his school. Pride Grand Prix 2000 champion Mark Coleman trained with Pat before the finals of Pride and has had great success. With a high number of schools and events emerging on the west coast, thanks in part to the legalization of mixed martial arts events, a need for teachers and schools who are open to aid fighters in the latest training methods and techniques have decreased. Increased competition causes schools to become secretive in their training methods in order to gain positions in the rankings of the promoters eyes, hopefully leading to high profile fights. A man who has always had his door open and welcomes many fighters to his school to trade ideas is John Lewis. He has had a successful school in Vegas for quite a while and has added a school in his old stomping grounds, Hawaii. Lewis has moved into a new location and has added gear in order to provide himself and others, the tools required for NHB victories. I was recently in Vegas on a business trip, but business and scheduling (and the slot machines) caused us to miss meeting up. I decided to call John on Sunday, September 17, 2000 to catch up on the latest news with him.

FCF: Many NHB fighters seem to come to you for additional training. You have seemed to become the Pat Miletich of the west coast. Are you soliciting fighters or do they just come to you for help?
JL: They seem to come to me. I've made a lot of friends over the years just being in the industry and the personality that I have. I've made a lot of friends, so I think they feel comfortable with me. They don't feel threatened by me in any way. They know that I'm not there to say I'm their teacher. Like any of the guys that are going to Pat's [Miletich] school or anybody elses, a lot of those guys can't really say that they're the teacher or the student, but they realize that there's good training there and that I'm very good at what I do technically, and I have a lot of people to train with me now that together make a great training camp. So, I think people feel comfortable with me and they've been coming to me. Now Maurice [Smith] is here. He's going to be leaving from here to fight in the UFC. We'll be going over there too. I had a fight last night. One of my fighters named Marvin Eastman; he fought in the King of the Cage. He's 7-0 now and he won his fight pretty quick. This is his first time fighting with me, for my team. He did very well too. He fights at 210 [lbs] and fought a 300 lb. Samoan guy. He's going to fight at 199 from now on. People feel comfortable with me and I like to help them whenever I can.

FCF: You have accumulated an extensive equipment setup, including mats, weights, and even a cage. Were these purchases mainly for you or to help build a stable of fighters?
JL: Originally, it was for me because I use it to help myself train and I did know at some point that I did want to have fighters and I knew that it would be good to have things like this, but pretty much the first thing, the cage, for myself, and then the weights, for myself, but now it's turning out. Now that I'm training people, it's for that too.

FCF: After talking with you, watching you teach classes, and coach at tournaments, I am always impressed with your ability to encourage your students and bring them to a new level. I consciously study other teachers in order to better my teaching methods. Do you do the same or just seem to have a talent for teaching?
JL: You know, I think you can say in a way I'm talented at teaching, but it's just more that I sincerely care about my students like they're my children. I feel really really close to my students. They're not just business for me. It's not just money for me. I have a sincere interest in them doing well for themselves because they can accomplish what they want to accomplish. I don't have the mentally in the martial arts that some of the schools have where they are just trying to make themselves win or make myself look good. I really want the students to become what I believe a black belt is, which is far beyond technique, which is a lot of the mental and mind and conquering themselves as well. I basically have a sincere love for my students and I want the best for them.

FCF: Do you have a standard recipe for training fighters or do you specialize your training to suit each fighter?
JL: It's just specialized to each fighter. I don't try to switch a fighter to become a Jiu-Jitsu fighter or anything like that. My criteria is that they have to really really good at something, whether that be stand up, wrestling, or submission when they come to me and from then on what I do is take what they got already and I try to fill in the spaces that they need to fill in. I don't do it all at once. I just figure out what's the best next level they need to work on. Sometimes it's not submission. For instance, if it's a solid wrestler, for him it may just be to defend himself against submissions. If it's a good kick boxer, it may just be to not to get taken down and if he does get taken down, defend himself against submissions and other guys are great at submissions, but they need takedowns, so basically it's formulated to the fighter that comes to me.

FCF: Please tell us about some of the fighters that you are training or working with presently, and the different types of techniques and methods you are using to improve their game.
JL: Tito Ortiz, of course, the UFC middleweight champion. He's pretty much solid all the way around. He's getting better with his hands all the time. His takedowns are great as they are and I'm helping him a lot with his submission skills. He's getting very good at that as well. He's learned to understand the game of the roll now. He knows how to roll now. He's not just a wrestler that goes for wrestling. He's really actually very good at rolling and is getting much better at submission. For him, I'm really concentrating on his conditioning more than anything else and making sure that he's in top shape. Then we got guys like Chuck Liddell. He's another well-rounded guy. Chuck's been with me, people don't really realize, off and on for about four years now. He's been with me for quite a while, even before he was actually considered fighting for my team, he was just coming to my school all the time. We've been working for a while and he's very good on the ground. A lot of people don't realize how good Chuck is at submissions and he's very good. He's also a solid wrestler and kick boxer. So, Chuck and those kind of guys, I'm really focusing on their conditioning. They have a lot of other things to do here besides teach submissions. We have different kinds of cardiovascular training, swimming exercises, the boxing, and different programs that we have. They are all incorporated in my camp. For instance, some of the time, I may send them off to train with Skipper Kelp [John's boxing coach] after my class at another time and he'll take over from there, it's not just the fact that it's just me. It's that I have a full camp that everybody's really good at what they do and I'm very good at using people for what they're good at what they do to teach. Other guys like Marvin Eastman, who's a new fighter for me; he fights for King of the Cage. He's definitely someone you'll be hearing a lot about. He's an incredible athlete. He's got a body like [Evander] Holyfield. He was a division I wrestler, serious wrestler, and he fights professionally in Muay Thai and he's undefeated in Muay Thai and basically just needs submissions. This last month I worked with him to get his defense and his submissions good and we got some strategies for the guy he was going to fight that worked exactly to the tee, enough to change from what we thought would happen to what [actually] happened in the fight. It really depends who the guy's going to beat, but that's a couple of guys from [my camp].

FCF: I was really impressed with Tito Ortiz's performance in the Abu Dhabi 2000. How much did you work with him before he left?
JL: At that time, it was for a good bit, and that was for conditioning and for submission. He was with me for a while for that, but it's a different kind of training. That training more for him is just to roll. He was just training with the bodies we have technically to train with.

FCF: Do you consider yourself a trainer, who basically whips these fighters into shape, or a teacher, who teaches them BJJ and stand-up techniques that are focused on NHB?
JL: I think I would have to say both because it depends on what the person needs. Somebody can come to me with the techniques of Tito, who is obviously a great fighter by himself, but they could use some teaching. They could use some techniques that would help them be better at what they do, but without me, they would still be great fighters. I can see if his conditioning needs to be better or stronger, I'll work on that. I'd say I'm definitely both because they [the fighters] have to be trained as well as taught, so do I when I fight too. When I fight, I need to find somebody for me the exact same way that I am for them. It's something we all need. It doesn't mean one person can beat up another person. It simply means that they realize that this person can get them to a new level.

FCF: I remember talking with you a while ago about limiting the amount of "alliances" with other camps. You still seem to be welcoming anyone and everyone to train at your school. Are you still worried or concerned about these many people picking your brain?
JL: No, I was never worried about that. That's a misunderstanding. What I meant by that, first of all, when it comes to my team, my school is an open school. There's no politics at my school. Anyone is welcome from any school of any kind to train at my school and if they want to train at my school, they must be open to it as well. It's not that. What I was saying at that time was, we have a team called Nova Uniao, which is a strong Jiu-Jitsu team, sport Jiu-Jitsu team that has a very high class of talent in it. It's because we're so picky with it. We don't just sell out affiliations just to make more money. I don't want to overdo it by giving guys affiliations to say Nova Uniao just so I can make some money. We really pick it based on talent. I don't even sell out affiliation actually. The people who are with me, like Egan [Inoue], quite a few other people that are with us, that are competing for our school, or become Nova Uniao are simply because they are good enough to defend Nova Uniao and I'm proud to have them fight for Nova Uniao. It's not so much that you need money to be part of Nova Uniao, I'm happy to have them [his teammates] in Nova Uniao. As far as people coming to my school, I love sharing what I have from my brain. I love giving whatever I can. I'm trying to give the best I can. I love asking people for help to get myself better and I love giving whatever I have. I'm not worried about that at all.

FCF: One thing which happened at Miletich's camp is that he seems to have a majority of the top lightweights from the same school. It's great for his training, but it limits the amount of opponents that are available to him and his fighters. Is this something that you are trying to avoid or are worried about?
JL: It's been something that has been in my mind now because now I'm getting a lot of people. I get emails all the time, people who are interested in joining the team and things like that so I've been aware of this now because I know at some point one of two things are going to have to happen. We're going to have to become a professional sport like boxing where friends fight because it's about business, which I'm terrible at that. I'm not good at fighting my friends. I don't even know if I would even want to. I'm not too concerned with the money that I have to fight my friends, but there's other people, I don't think anybody's wrong for doing that if that's the perspective they have on it in a mutual way, but at the same time, it is kind of tough. That is a situation that is going to have to be asked. There are a few lightweight fighters that train with me. A couple of them are my students that would not fight with me anyway and about the time that I start to retire is about the time they're going to be taking over and they're very good. I have really serious names coming up, but I do have guys like Tito and Chuck who are both 199 lb fighters or around that weight. They never will fight each other. It won't happen. That would mean that if Chuck wanted the UFC middleweight title, he would never be able to get it until Tito relinquished it or God forbid, lost it. So that's something we have to deal with and it's something I have been thinking about, but at this point it's kind of spread out right now and it's also spread out in levels right now, like the best guys I got are still the best guys. The two closest guys I got are Tito and Chuck. There's a lot of good guys, but the other guys are coming up anyway so they can wait their turn.

FCF: You are slated to fight the "Pulverizer", Jens Pulver in an upcoming UFC. Until recently, he looked unstoppable. What are your plans on breaking him down?
JL: I don't really have plans. I think Jens Pulver is a great fighter. I like the way he fights and I have a lot of respect for him, which is why I want to fight him. Even though he is good with his hands and good with his legs, I think I'm better with my hands and on the ground, I think I'm better as well so I don't have the specific strategy that I might use to fight him, but I do know that I respect him. I do know that I'll be prepared for him, but at this point, I don't know that yet.

FCF: Pulver is an accomplished wrestler that has not seen a lot of action on his back. Do you plan to see if you put the Pulverizer down and work from there?
JL: No, I really don't feel afraid to be in a position with him from top on the ground, bottom on the ground, or [standing] up. That's not that I don't think he's dangerous in those positions. I know that I'm accomplished in those positions so I don't really have a specific place where I want to put him or have to put him. I'm going to wear myself out trying to [put Pulver down], where ever the fight goes, I'm prepared for it.

FCF: Instead of gaining weight for your recent fights, you will be cutting weight and fighting closer to your natural weight. Do you feel that a strength advantage will be a major element of this fight?
JL: Just so you know, I'm walking around right now at about 157. Sometimes I'm 160 on a good day so my weight's going to be 155 which, I can cut by not eating dinner the night before. I don't have to do any workout to cut any weight. I truthfully can fight at that weight naturally. I've never done that because I've never wanted to fight smaller guys. I've always wanted to fight bigger guys. For some reason, whatever the structure of my body that God made it that way, is that anybody that is my same weight is always a lot smaller than me and I don't know why that is. In my mind, I've always had a perception that I have been fighting small guys, but I forget and have to look in the mirror and realize that I am a small guy. I've always been very strong for my weight, like the guys that are up to 199, you can ask any of the big guys that I work with, they will tell you that I could even fight at that weight, strength-wise. Of course, weight matters too. So, I think I will have an advantage in strength just because I am a naturally strong person for my weight.

FCF: So, when you fight at the 170 lb class, do you gain weight or just fight as is?
JL: I leave my weight as is, which is usually about 160.

FCF: It's interesting that there's no press regarding the weight differential in your fights. Usually 10 lbs, especially in the lightweight class, is a huge weight difference.
JL: That's the story of my life [both laugh]. I've always had situations where people have thought of it like that, but I've always been a small fighter fighting bigger fighters just for the challenge for myself. Even when I fought Kenny Monday, I made it to 170 for that weight, you know it said it different on TV. He was definitely 195 or more. I knew it was going to be hard for me to do it, but I just wanted the challenge. It wasn't about the money or the prestige. I thought he was a great fighter. I have a lot of respect for him. I wanted to fight the best, you know. That's really what it's about for me.

FCF: It seems with fighters such as Jens Pulver, Vanderlei Silva, and Gilbert Yvel are starting the trend back to stand up based fighters doing well in NHB. The winning combination presently seems to be good stand up skills, solid wrestling, and some knowledge of submissions. Do you feel that a good submission artist with limited stand up still can make an impact on today's NHB scene?
JL: I think nowadays it's switching a little bit. I think a good submission artist can make an impact, but he can't be the man if that's all he has. I also think that if he has no takedown skills, no wrestling skills, then he definitely can't be the man. These days, he will never have the chance to take anyone of quality to the ground if he doesn't have any takedown skills. Now, I think what's very important is not wrestling per say, as in the whole ground game of wrestling, but takedowns on a wrestling level are extremely important and if you don't have it, you should be working on that. You've seen it yourself where great wrestlers nowadays are doing really good against all kinds of fighters, like submission fighters. Like Mark Kerr for instance, who although he is working on his submissions and getting better at that, he's a great takedown artist and he's pretty much developed the defense of the submission, as shown as someone as great as Fabio Gurgel. Even Mark Kerr being able to take me down and not get caught and banging on you, is a real problem these days so the only way to have your submission game solid is to be able to put the guy down where you want to put him in the first place.

FCF: With the addition of the flyweight division, do you see a revitalization in your career or do you plan on remaining in the extremely tough lightweight division?
JL: No, I actually have a really exciting plan about to happen. Hopefully, it's going to happen within the next few days. I can't say anything about it until it happens. I'll be biting off a good big piece of something, so I can't say anything yet because I don't want to mess it up, but you'll hear in the next few days if it's going to happen or not.

FCF: I hear that Gustavo is going to start an academy in Arizona. Can you tell us about that?
JL: Yes, Gustavo Dantas, who has been teaching at my school for a while now. He's a great black belt, two-time world champion in the mundial [World Championships]. He is going to move to Arizona with his family and he is going to be teaching at a school over there. I don't have all the addresses on it yet, but you'll be able to see it on my website, at lewisjiujitsu.com pretty soon. It's a Nova Uniao school. People that will be training will be fighting for Nova Uniao

FCF: Are you planning on sending any fighters to the Vegas Grappler's Quest.
JL: Yes, we'll have a team assembled for that. I'm not sure how many people yet, but that's definitely in our plans.

FCF: Do you have any black belts that may be fighting in any of the super fights?
JL: I know that BJ [Penn, 2000 Black Belt World Champion] may be fighting in it. I don't know how far that is done for sure. I'm pretty sure it's going to happen, so that will be the only one we will have. [Note: BJ Penn is announced to fight Abu Dhabi qualifier winner Phil Cardoso at the Vegas Grappler's Quest.]

FCF: Will you be fighting in the UFC after this one?
JL: First of all, it will be in November. Second of all, Mr. Perretti has said that he is interested in that fight happening. Jens Pulver has accepted that fight happening, but there has been no contracts, no talk about finances, no nothing yet. So, from all the accounts, we all want to do it, but there's not been any business taken care of which could make or break the deal still.

FCF: Do you have any plans after that upcoming UFC?
JL: No, I have to take it time by time. I have a lot of fighters. You know this month, I've had two fighters in the beginning of the month fight, one Rene Conant won his first fight in 25 seconds and then I had Tony DeSouza, who won his first fight in 45 seconds [Note: both fought in the Cobra Classic], and then a couple months back that I had Eric Pele fight [in RINGS Hawaii], and then yesterday I had this gentlemen fight that I just told you about. I don't really have… but Maurice is going to fight. Tito was going to fight on the [September] 22nd, but he's going to be fighting later now. That was one of our plans. Eric [Pele] is fighting on the 30th so I'm really busy now training those guys that if my fight was any sooner, I wouldn't be able to train right. I really have to pace it out right, take it step by step, and see what I'm going to do.

FCF: Are you thinking about retirement or do you have two or three more fights left in you, possibly more?
JL: It's like you said, two or three, possibly more depending on money, but I'm not at the point where I'm feeling like I'm too old. I feel like I'm mentally and technically better than I've ever been. My mind is really strong right now. I've had ups and downs in my career, but that's what it's all about to me. That's why I've always done it. It's been for myself and that's why I'm going to be a better person in the long run. I don't mean a better fighter, I mean a better person. I'm really happy with what I've done and I think I have some more fights in me just because I want to fight a few more tough people, not because I need to make the money or anything. What's happening is the more fighters I get, the harder it's getting for me to train myself and train them. I don't want to go out there, mess myself up, and end my career because I can't train properly for some fights. That's my only worry. That's why if I had to retire, I would be retiring because I would have to make a commitment to my students or do I want to fight. Either way, I love it. I love seeing my students kick butt or I love doing it myself.

FCF: Well, I know we all love to see you fight and hopefully this fight with Jens Pulver comes through so we can see you back in action.
JL: Thanks very much. You're always a class act and I appreciate the time you always give me.