Being a twin has its advantages and disadvantages. Growing up, twins always have someone to play with. For the most part, since my twin brother and I are two hardheaded young men, growing up turned in to daily Ultimate Fighting Championships, which continues until today. While we were trashing each other, we never thought we could make money by beating the crap out of each other. Another set of twins are doing just that, not tearing in to each other, but other lightweights in the Pankration and kickboxing scene. Trevor and Todd Lally started out as kick boxers in Washington under the tutelage of world-class trainer Haru Shimanishi and later under the golden hands of NHB fighter/trainer, Matt Hume. After a busy start fighting in kickboxing matches, playing sports, and going to school, Trevor Lally started to concentrate on no holds barred around the time that the UFC hit the scene. Since then, Trevor has moved to Arizona to start a school and has teamed up with two-time World Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champion, Gustavo Dantas of Nova Uniao. While in Arizona on business, I searched for Gustavo Dantas at Arizona Combat Sports and found Trevor Lally on March 8, 2001.

Full Contact Fighter: I'm standing here with Trevor Lally at Arizona Combat Sports. Let's start with your background. How did you start your martial arts career?
Trevor Lally: Actually, I got real lucky. I started off kickboxing with Haru Shimanishi over at AMC. He was back in Edmonds area. He trained like eight world champions. I was real lucky to start off with him. I started fighting for him. My first fight was, it was an exhibition, against a teacher from another school and I did real well and I've been with him ever since. I took a couple years off to play rugby and go to school, came back to AMC where they opened their new school in Kirkland, Washington and I was lucky enough to have Matt Hume there, which everybody knows is one of the best no holds barred trainers in the sport. Between Haru and Matt, my training has just been superb. Now, I'm really lucky enough to, because my brother who moved down to Vegas, got together with John Lewis, met Gustavo Dantas through John Lewis, and now I'm working with Gustavo as far as my ground skills. Keeping touch with my stand up skills, I'm working out with Skipper Kelp. He fought for the world championship two times in boxing. I think he's the boxing coach for John Lewis, Nova Uniao team and I work with Scott, Gustavo, my brother, and Skipper Kelp from time to time. I've just been real lucky with the people I've been able to train with. [I] stayed a month in Japan to compete in Shooto, got to train with Yuki Nakai, got to train with Asahi, Akihiro Gono, and Enson Inoue. I've been just real blessed with the people I got to train with.

FCF: How long have you trained with Haru before he combined with Matt Hume?
TL: I think, if I can remember, it was about four years, three and a half [to] four years off and on again, but since I was eighteen to about twenty-one. I had a good Thai background before I even started the no holds barred part of it.

FCF: Did you train specifically the ground with Matt Hume and the stand up with Haru?
TL: Yeah, well actually, Matt's a pretty decent, if not good, stand up coach, very good, very powerful, but they both pretty much taught the same things. Matt just put in his little techniques as far as the knees and everything else so mostly, both gelled real well. I like my hands and I have very strong kicks so they just said go with it. I used to wrestle in high school, wrestled in eighth grade. Within the three months since I got back with Haru and Matt was there, I fought in my very first fight in Hawaii. I think it was called the Pankration championships. Kimo Leopoldo was on the card, Orlando Weit, one of our guys, Todd Bjornethun. John Lewis was on the card. I was the very first fight of the night with three months training and I beat a guy from Gokor's school in under eight minutes with an arm bar.

FCF: After that fight, did you immediately continue to fight in Washington or take a layoff?
TL: I fought all the time in Washington. I can't even tell you how many fights I had. I can't remember. I know I fought probably every other month or every month in the amateur Pankration fights that we had there. We have guys that came out of there like Josh Barnett, Dennis Hallman, Monson, Roman Roytberg. We had Danny "Boy" Bennett become a World Thai Champion. We've had some great talent come in and out of there so actually some of the toughest fights I've ever had was the amateur fights up in Washington under the USCF.

FCF: Were you still competing in kickboxing as well as Pankration?
TL: Actually no, I competed full time in Pankration. Pankration kind of got in to my skin and I love competing in it. I was a little better at it because of the ground skills from Matt that I learned. We were a little more skilled than most of the guys and even if they were more skilled on the ground than us, which is rare, my stand up would just pick them apart. So, it was an easier night for me than to sit there and bang with some Thai guy. I definitely stayed with Pankration.

FCF: What years are we talking about these Pankration events? These events took place during the early UFC years correct?
TL: Yeah. This was either before or straight up during [the UFC]. Matt was lucky. He was over in Pancrase, so I think this was before the UFC got a hold. I think it was right when I started back in Pankration, the very first UFC started. So, around the same time as the UFC is when I started and I think Matt was a couple months before that as far as Pancrase fights go in Japan.

FCF: So Matt's consistently running events in the Washington area for just under ten years?
TL: Oh yeah. Now, they just got, I think last year, they just got approved. He built up an incredible amateur program, got all the schools involved, brought up some beautiful talent and now I think, last year and this year, he's having pro fights there. I guess they're doing real well. They're selling out all the time. You got guys like Dennis Hallman, Josh Barnett, Monson. All these guys on the card all the time with incredible fights. Thai fights, I know one just happened last week, Thai fight between Danny "Boy" Bennett, who was six in the world at his time, now he's decided to come back. He was doing a little bit no holds barred, but wasn't too serious in it. In his day, he was one of the most feared Thai boxers out there. He just had a bang fest with another fella named Kim Mason and I was told that it went well. Dennis Hallman beat his guy quick. They got a bunch of new crop of new talent up there, Aaron Riley. I don't know if he fought, but he's up at AMC now. Matt's been doing real well.

FCF: I've seen both Danny Bennett and Kim Mason fight in no holds barred, but not kickboxing. That was a kickboxing card right?
TL: It was a kickboxing card. I guess they fought to a draw Kim Mason became the North American, I don't know if it was the amateur or pro, Muay Thai Champion under, I think, the UFCF or some kind of federation [Author's Note: It was in the Return of the Gladiators show on March 3, 2001 sanctioned by the UFCF and Washington State]. He's basically training under Matt Hume. Haru started him and mostly with Curtis Schuster, Curtis "the Cat" Schuster. He works time from time with Maurice [Smith]. Both schools are now working together. It's just a great atmosphere. I miss it a little bit, but I have unbelievable good ground training here with Gustavo as well as when my brother comes down or I go up to John Lewis' and box with Skipper Kelp. I got some things I need to work on before I get back in there and fight some serious competition, but definitely looking forward to it, seeing what I got.

FCF: Let's talk about your involvement with the Shooto organization.
TL: The Shooto organization was unbelievable. They flew me and my brother down there to compete in the Shooto competition. They flew us down there a month before the competition just so we could watch the valetudo, the World Valetudo. We had Todd Bjornethun fight one of Rickson Gracie's European students and destroyed him with leg kicks and knocked him out. Joe Estes fought Enson Inoue for the rematch, loss badly in that fight, but he needed to train more basically. He's one of those big guys where either he would do really well if he trained or he would get killed if he didn't and he didn't train so… Then we stayed under Master…what's his name…
FCF: Sayama.
TL: Master Sayama. He gave us his condo right in front of the Super Tiger Gym and I trained there everyday with guys like Asahi, Yuki Nakai. He'd roll with us everyday. He's unbelievable. I couldn't understand some of the names so we always gave them nicknames. We called this one guy, I don't know if you want to put this on the thing, we called him little stump. He was built like a little stump and there was this other guy with a triangle looking face so we called him triangle face [both laugh]. Don't put that on the tape, but basically, we used a lot of nicknames. Akihiro Gono, we used to spar with his guys all the time. They kind of had a rivalry that came over and me and my brother were part of the Super Tiger Gym, we were part of their team. When it came to competition, we fought well our first fight. The second fight, we just didn't have it in us. We both lost our second fight. My fight I lost by points to Uno and now he's like a superstar so I'm not too worried about it. It was a tough fight. They asked me about two years ago, when Danny [Bennett] fought Ray Cooper in Hawaii, the Japanese press was there and asked me if I wanted to fight him again. I said that I haven't been training for three years, I said it's about time I get back in to it and I'll get a hold of you guys when I do. So, maybe in the future I'll look to fight Uno again. I know they want the fight to happen over there in Japan at least they asked me for it, but now with the UFC and with all these other great lightweights that are out there, Jens Pulver and all these other fellows out there, BJ Penn, all these up and coming stars that my brother rolls with everyday, it's real real tough out there. There's really good guys out there. I don't know where me and my brother are at as far as the lightweights, but we wouldn't mind stepping up a little bit you know, but when I'm ready.

FCF: Tell me about your experience at Abu Dhabi in 98.
TL: Abu Dhabi was a lot different for me. I had like a year layoff. Matt called me up and said, "Hey, there's this big event going on in the Middle East. The Sheik's throwing it. He's in to Jiu-Jitsu. He's in to the ground game. Come back in and we're going to have a wrestle off to see who goes over there. We're throwing a team over there." So, I came back there and I had to wrestle a Michigan state wrestling coach who was strong as hell and Matt's been teaching him to do takedowns and get back up and do takedowns and get back up and I wasn't bad at that, but I was nowhere near him. I had to wrestle him first off and I popped my shoulder out, basically tore everything in it, tore the rotator cuff. I ended up beating him, tapping him out with an ankle and went to Abu Dhabi and jumped right in and fought Soca. The whole time before I fought Soca, I had John Lewis in my ear saying, "He's good, he's good." So, I got a little intimidated with him. After I lost to Soca and I relaxed a little bit, I played around with all the guys over there. It was an unbelievable experience. I hear it's getting bigger every year. I wouldn't mind going back. It's not really my game. I'm more of a no holds barred. I like to strike. I like to punch. I like to kick, but I would love to go back anytime. I would love to have me and Gustavo get a team together one of these days with Mark Kerr. I think we were thinking about, David Dodd, some of the other fellows we have here and maybe throw a team in, but it was an unbelievable experience and he's doing real well representing our sport.
FCF: You just talked about Gustavo coming down here. I knew of him when I competed at the mundial (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu World Championships) in 1997 when he and his teammate Leo Santos won my division as purple belts and then Gustavo won as a brown belt in 1998 as well. After that, I understand he moved to Las Vegas to live with John Lewis for a while and then opened a school down here. Did you seek him out or did he come to you?
TL: Actually, I got real lucky again with Gustavo. My brother is under the John Lewis Valetudo Team. He actually helps coach the valetudo team up there as well being on of their fighters. They just gave him a nickname, Lucky Todd Lally. He just fought in Gladiator Challenge and knocked the guy out in about a minute in the first round, but him and Gustavo got together. Gustavo moved out of Brazil, didn't like what was happening in Brazil, moved out and talked to Andre [Pederneiras, Brazilian head of Nova Uniao] and that's how he got hooked up with John [Lewis], came over and him and my brother just gelled together. They would go over to my house. Gustavo would go over a lot of new ground stuff. My brother would go over the stand up and the ankles and all the stuff we got from AMC and they just worked really well together. My brother kept telling me about Gustavo and I wanted to meet him so finally I got the chance to meet him. We went over like private lessons. I liked what he had to show. He's unbelievable. I guess his nickname is the guru and if anybody knows him, they know why. Then, just out of the blue, Gustavo just talked to me about coming down here. I was down here. I was down here with Danny Bennett. It didn't work out. He had to go back home because of family stuff and Gustavo wanted to open up and take advantage of the open hole here and it's been beautiful ever since. He's been down here for about three months and we have a great response. We're getting all the top Jiu-Jitsu guys as well as everybody else from the area signing up everyday. Everyday he shows me something that makes me smile and I've been in the sport for a long time for over eight years. He's an unbelievable technician as well as athlete. He's fierce.

FCF: Was Gustavo the reason why guys like Judson, Dodd, and Rico Rodriguez come here to train?
TL: Yeah, Gustavo is the reason for getting all the big name ground guys. Guys like David Dodd and Steve Judson have trained up in John Lewis' and were there when Gustavo was teaching some of the classes and maybe they rolled with him and I know he does pretty well against most of the people he rolls against as far as Rico, as far as Dodd, as far as anybody. Gustavo is definitely a force to be reckoned with, barring injuries which he gets all the time because he is a lightweight. I know Kerr was excited to work out with him. I don't know what happened there. Rico has come in a couple times and stressed a lot of interest about working out, but he goes so many other places. As far as David Dodd and Judson, Gustavo was definitely the reason for them joining up.

FCF: So they are consistent students as well?
TL: I think right now, Judson has been coming in more and more often. I don't know where his mind is about competing. I know Dodd was a little frustrated after the King of the Cage performance and the overall pay he's been getting. I think a lot of the fighters nowadays are being frustrated with some of the promoters and some of the pay they receive. I know Dodd's been fighting a lot of tough guys and has beaten a lot of tough guys in no holds barred and he fought Vernon Tiger for, I can't say the price, but for a price he wasn't really happy with after he lost a tough fight. So, his head's not in it right now. He said he'll be back so it's up to him to say. He's welcome back. We love to have guys like that in here.
FCF: Let's talk about you and your twin brother probably being the only twins fighting as far as I know.
TL: Yeah, that was a big draw for us in Japan. They loved the twin thing. I don't know too many other twins fighting. One of the exciting things in Japan if we would have won the tournament, we would have to fight each other, but as history goes, we lost. It's kind of a good hook for us. I've dyed my hair bleach blonde to get away from that a little bit and he just did it too so. He's got a little more fire in his belly now. I believe if some promoter gave him a chance, he was scheduled to fight Jens Pulver in the UFC, but he tore his meniscus and Velasquez got the fight at the last minute. He will definitely be a force to be reckoned with. Skipper Kelp wants him to go as a pro boxer. He's got incredible ground skills. We're both just a little lighter than most of the competitors out there at 141, 145 so we need to gain some weight.

FCF: So you returned to fight in the King of the Cage after a two and a half year layoff. How was it coming back?
TL: Rusty man, I was rusty. I was nervous because I just opened up this school. I had a lot of pressure because I knew I would get a lot of good guys in here and if I didn't have a good performance how are they going to be able to compete. After the win, I was all aces there. The pressure I put on myself being so rusty, you know they didn't name the opponent until the last hour of the fight. I knew he was like fifteen to twenty pounds bigger than me. I didn't know if he was good or not. During the fight, he was like asking for my autograph as we fought and it was kind of a weird situation, but I performed fairly well. I wish I could have done a few more things, but I was rusty.

FCF: Do you have anything set up in the future as far as fights?
TL: Well, I was supposed to fight last month for the title for King of the Cage with Velasquez, but I had to pull out because of an ankle injury. I got bone spurs in my ankle. I think I got to go get surgery on that. Frank Shamrock has been talking to us about fighting in the Bushido Challenge. My brother versus Velasquez because they don't want to deal with the Velasquez and me fight in the King of the Cage. Me and Gustavo are actually banging some heads down here and we got some big name sponsors that we're trying to tie down. Actually, they're very interested. We're doing a big grappling event. We definitely would like $7,000.00 worth of prizes. We're going to have a big absolute division with eight-world class submission wrestling fighters and four of the advanced division winners can go in to the tournament as well.

FCF: Good luck with the grappling tournament and upcoming fights.
TL: Thanks.