Forget Carl Weathers, the "real" Action Jackson is Eugene Jackson. Jackson, along with Tim Lajcik and Doug Evans, teamed up to form Team Gladiator. They train at the aptly named Gladiator Training Academy. Eugene has been"quietly" making a name for himself by earning a 15-4 record. He did not accumulate this record by fighting nobodys. He fought numerous NHB notables such as "The Janitor" Vladdy Matyushenko, "The Huntington Beach Bad Boy" Tito Ortiz, and "The Ax Murderer" Vanderlei Silva. But because of the UFC's viewership, he only recently gained notoriety by beating NCAA champion and Dan Gable protégé, Royce Alger and, most recently, 5th ranked Pancrase fighter, Kei Yamamiya at UFC Japan. I tracked down the Gladiator just after the New Year on January 2, 2000. I asked Eugene about fighting some of the toughest fighters in NHB, how the Gladiator Training Academy got started, and what it was like fighitng in the different NHB organizations.

FCF: First off, let's talk about your fight at UFC Japan II [UFC XXIII] against Keiichiro Yamamiya. You always seemed to have confidence in your stand-up skills. Did you feel that you could keep the fight standing and knock Yamamiya out?
Eugene Jackson: I wasn't looking at knocking him out. I was just looking at trying to win on points, connect more times than he did. I don't go into a fight looking for a knockout.

FCF: Yamamiya look comfortable standing, but did not seem to possess enough power to affect you with his strikes. Tell us about that.
EJ: He never hit me clean, except maybe in the first round. And that was me trying to move in on him. I didn't feel any power to make me nervous. He was a good stand-up fighter. The thing that made me nervous was that he was a left-hander. And left-handers can catch you anywhere, especially when the fight goes on and both of you start to get a little tired. That hand sneaks over, that's where the power is. I thought about him a lot before the fight, because he gave such a good fight to [Jeremy] Horn.

FCF: That makes you 2-0 in the octagon, I believe. A lot of people did not expect the outcome when you faced Royce Alger at UFC XXI. Tell us about your UFC debut.
EJ: I guess you get butterflies like everybody does. [laughs] I mean, I have been in a bunch of rings before, but it was like, this is it. This is what you dreamed about, when you said that you were going to do, but never thought it would really happen. With Alger, I knew he was a wrestler, so I trained really hard with wrestlers, trying to get out and sprawl and stuff like that. He was finally able to get me up against the fence and we went down. When he mounted me and started hitting me, he didn't have the punching power that everybody told me about. But when he had me on the ground and was hitting me, I was like "this is what they had me under the impression of?" I started getting a little dumb and started pushing away from him. I just felt that I could beat this guy standing up, so I just tried to get it back to standing up.

FCF: Later, were you pretty comfortable with his takedown attempts?
EJ: Yeah, because I wrestled with Tim [Lajcik]. And Tim has a quick shot, I mean he gets in fast! And he's stronger, so I was already used to somebody fast and strong. I felt that I had prepared for what I had to do for that fight.

FCF: Before your UFC appearance, you were relatively unknown. Most people do not know that you have fought some of the toughest fighters in the sport before appearing in the UFC. Tell us about some of your previous matches with the more well-known fighters such as Tito, Vanderlei, and Vladdy [Tito Ortiz at Neutral Grounds, Vanderlei Silva at IVC 10, Vladimir Matyushenko at IFC].
EJ: Vladdy was my second fight ever. They said he was an IFC champion and my dumb butt says "okay," and I got into the ring. [laughs] I thought that I dominated the fight for the first four minutes, but then I gased from there. So my strength wasn't a factor, it didn't help me after that. And when he mounted me, I didn't know how to roll somebody off you. So he did the choke where they put one arm behind your neck and the other one in the front of your neck where he was totally commited to my neck. I could have rolled him, but I didn't know what that was. So I had to tap. I mean, that was fustrating. That broke my heart, but it brought me up to where I told myself, "you had better learn something." And with Tito, I was 190lbs and Tito was 225lbs. So there was a big, big weight difference, when we fought, which [at the time] I still didn't think much of. I drove directly down to LA to fight him. That's someone that I would like to fight again. He is a very, very strong individual. And I would like to see him fight with me again, with me in shape and a little heavier. And against Vanderlei, that was my dumbest fight. Just because I went in there trying to prepare for his style, instead of making him have to prepare for mine. I went in there, trying to go southpaw to worry about his kicks and his knees, instead of having him worry about my punches. And that was dumb, I totally changed my plan to fight him and you see where I ended up there, on my back wondering "whoa, what am I doing."

FCF: These fights were in different events such as Neutral Grounds, IFC, and IVC. How do these different organizations, with similar, but different rules compare to fighting in the UFC?
EJ: To start with the IVC, because there's no gloves, if someone lands a clean punch, there's something broken or there's something split open right away. So you have a narrow margin for error, where someone could really make you pay for it. Not just a little bit, but a lot. And then the headbutts. You can neutralize someone's arms, or you can neutralize someone's legs, but having to go for that third object, the head, becomes harder to deal with. Even though I haven't had to deal with it, but it was a concern. IFC and Neutral Grounds, they are both Pancrase rules. You can't punch to the face, you can only slap. So, it takes some of my striking ability away. I'd be curious to see how the fights would be with fists. I can take a pretty good punch and I can give a pretty good punch. So, I can pretty much play blow for blow and change the dynamics of the fight.

FCF: Would you throw Pancrase in with Neutral Grounds and the IFC?
EJ: Yeah, very similar, except Pancrase has better fighters in it. Well, at least, more versed on the ground. They know the Sambo stuff and the Jiu-Jitsu stuff.

FCF: And what about leading up to the UFC with it's different rules?
EJ: I like the UFC rules. I like the octagon. I love it because it can be an enemy to you, that cage because there's no giving, or it can be a friend to you, depending on how you use it. So when you train, you can train to have a buddy with you in the cage, using the cage as your friend. I like striking on the ground. I wish you could kick [on the ground], but you can't so… I like the round system, it makes it look more like a sport. I want it to be like a sport. After the fights, I want to be nice to everyone. I want to be friends with these guys. I don't know these guys, they didn't hurt my mother, they didn't steal from me, we're both combatants that are athletes. And I'd like to keep it like that. I'd like to go back to my corner and they tell me this is what your doing wrong, remember we trained for this, etc. It gives you a chance to see what's going on. Plus it leaves the referee out of the fight. Because they always tend to stand back up the fights. You know, certain fights that I have seen in the past, ground and pounders get stood back up and lose against strikers in fights that they were obviously winning. I just think, you know what your time is, you know how to train, you know what to do to win that fight. And we seen that with [Kevin] Randleman, he used the round exactly like he was suppose to, which was very smart. And I like that.

FCF: How have the experiences from your prior fights changed your mentality and training?
EJ: Vanderlei changed my thinking. I thought that I could hit hard. I thought that I could take a good punch. I got my nose and my eye socket broken with the very first punch of the fight. For the rest of the fight, I was just trying to hold him, taking knees to the head, just trying to keep him close. It taught me about being ultra aggressive and not respecting someone's power. Because in all my fights before that, if you seen the videos of me, I always attacked my guy. And in all my fights since then, I counter fight. I still have the same strengths. I can see what your going to do and I'm not going to get caught with something stupid, just because I want to close the gap so fast. I think it made me respect everyone a lot more. That's the one fight that made me think.

FCF: Now let's talk about your background. I hear that you have had a rough childhood. Can you tell us about that?
EJ: My childhood, I can't say was rough. I mean, I had a good mother and a good grandmother who took care of me well. I just grew up in a bad neighborhood. And being mixed [bi-racial], I lived in an all black neighborhood, they didn't care too much that I had a white family. So I had to deal with stuff like that growing up. You had to fight. So do I have formal training? No, I studied formal Kung-Fu that probably everybody knew. I did some point-tournament-contact stuff. I mean, point-touch stuff. I never learned anything until I started fighting. Tim [Lajcik] showed me how to wrestle and sprawl and stuff. So I never had any formal training.

FCF: Did your childhood experiences help prepare you for NHB and the training it requires?
EJ: It's like one thing we always say, you can't train someone to have heart. In the street, if you punch me in the face, I have to punch you back in the face or everyone is going to punch me in the face. You try your hardest not to quit unless somebody just whips your tail well. Me, I grew up having to do that, so when I get into the ring and someone hits me, I try to hit them back. And if they pop me again, I pop them back. Now I'm trying to break away from that a little bit. I'm trying to learn some skills. I got some people working with me, so now I'm trying to learn some skills. I do think that my background did help a little bit, at least with the physical aspects of it.

FCF: I remember you coming in to the Superbrawl listing a Kung-Fu background and ended up winning the fight on the ground. When did you start learning submissions?
EJ: I still don't know submissions. I went to Ralph Gracie's [school] for about a week and I thought he was the greatest guy in the world. I would have loved to stay there. It's just he's not there all of the time and his students, because they know your doing this stuff, they're not teaching you, they're trying to destroy you. The only time that I wanted to be there was when he [Ralph] was there, but I didn't get to train with him like I wanted to. So I said "no, I'm not going to let these guys rip my elbows up and try to hurt me and not teach me." I'm paying to learn, not to get beat up on. I don't mind the free sparring, but teach me something. You armbar me 400 times, show me what can I do to fix that. Don't keep doing that and everybody takes their turn. I'm asking and nobody wants to show me. I don't like that. But when Ralph, himself, was there, he made me feel good. But outside of that, I have never learned submissions. I have some video tapes of some different people and I try to understand that stuff.

FCF: Were you training with Tim Lajcik at that time? How did you guys meet?
EJ: [laughs] I worked at a trucking company and had a big warehouse downstairs that I turned into a little gym. And some people started coming in there and started using it. Well, Tim came in there and he was working with somebody and they ask me to work out with him. I said "no problem." They said that he was a really good wrestler, so I said, "I can probably beat him wrestling," because I was a street fighter so I thought I could hang. So he took me on the mat and beat my tail for probably six months. I had to go home with bloody noses just from wrestling, every single day. I mean, he used to whoop my tail! That's how we hooked up and we just got closer and closer and closer. Now we're unseparable.

FCF: In what ways do you feel that training with Tim has changed your game?
EJ: He's fast, he's really strong. He's a really good wrestler, so he taught me how to sprawl. He taught me how to take pressure and absorb it, not to sit back and get scared and think, "ah, man I'm in such a bad position." He taught me how to sit back and fight through it. He taught me that there are times where you're going to lose and there are times where, what the guy is doing to you now, is all he can do. Just wait it out and then attack. He did help me climb over the edge. Instead of being right under it, he helped me get right over it.

FCF: You have an incredible physique. I understand that you keep yourself on a very strict diet. Can you please inform us on your eating habits?
EJ: I don't eat beef. I don't eat pork. I eat a lot of poutry and fish. I try to keep supplementing. Instead of drinking dairy, we use a lot of soy, and soymilk, and soy drinks and stuff. It's supposed to be better for you. Is it really? We don't know, but the way the world is, if we can do a little better for ourselves, it may help.

FCF: You are a testament to all the white-collar workers. Your bio on your web page [www.gladiatorsgta.com ] states that you work 12-hour days and still find time to train. More and more fighters now a days are training full-time, yet you cannot. And how much does teaching at the Gladiator Training Academy make up of your work day?
EJ: I don't teach at the Gladiators, Tim and the guys teach, I work. I work from 6:00 in the morning till 6:00 at night, so when I get off, I come in, I try to lift weights. I try to run. I try to wrestle around. I try to get into the ring and do a little sparring with somebody. But somedays you're so drained that you can't even do that. I used to try and work with people, just on getting in shape. But, sometimes when you get off work, you're too drained to focus on somebody else.

FCF: Tell how the Gladiator Training Academy got started?
EJ: Like I told you a little earlier, I was working at the trucking company. We had a big old empty warehouse downstairs. I used to go downstairs and hit the punching bag. I brought my weights from home and started working out there. The building a gentleman who used to teach boxing in got torn down. He asked if he could open up in there, so I got us a boxing ring, so we started boxing. About six months later, a Thai boxer whose place was getting sold asked if he could come. And all of a sudden, we got ourselves a gym. [laughs] We never expected that, it was just a place for me to work out at work.

FCF: The Gladiator Training Academy has a very well-rounded curriculum. Tell us what other kinds of classes you offer and about the training.
EJ: We offer conditioning classes and ground and pound classes. Tim gets in there and shows how to shoot and take someone down, how to work the sprawl, the arm crank, the neck crank, and how to play a good position. That's basically all we do there. We get a lot of other work by going up to Sanford [University] and working out with the Sanford wrestlers and stuff like that.

FCF: What are your future plans?
EJ: I'd like to keep fighting, as long as I'm doing good or at least being competitive for another two years.

FCF: Are you planning to just hang up your hat or go into teaching?
EJ: I don't think I'm that great a teacher. I think that I'm good at pumping you up. I'm good at making people feel good, but I'm not a good teacher. I'd rather help fighters get further into the fight [game]. You got these guys that are good. You got them in class and they're learning, I would like to take them around the world. With all the contacts that I have met up with, I would like to tell people, "hey, this guy's good, give him a chance." I'd like to see this sport grow, and give people a chance. I'd like to help with stuff like that.

FCF: I know Tim just fought in the RINGS 32-man Megabattle tournament. But, what are the plans of the other fighters of the GTA?
EJ: We have Doug, who is about to fight at the IVC on January 15th, in the featherweight category, or whatever it's called. And we have a couple other young guys who are going to be fighting soon. We're just going to try and play them out in the little tournaments, so they get used to it and get a feel. Then try and get them into Japan or Brazil, when they're really ready.

FCF: That leads into my next question, which is there any up and coming fighters coming out of your academy that we should keep an eye out for? How soon before these fighters are actively competing?
EJ: We have Kenneth, we have Eric, and David. I would say give them till the middle of the year. And you will start seeing them. That's when we will start introducing them in. Kenneth, I think, is going to be a little bit quicker because he's a heavyweight that is extremely fast and strong. He weighs like 225lbs, but his hands are like a lightweight's hands. He's got bomb power and he's quick. We're trying to get his ground game a little better, beause his standup game is phenom. We are trying to get him to not to get caught in dumb positions. And I think you should hear about him soon.

FCF: Finally, how do Gladiators celebrate the end of the millenium?
EJ: [laughs] We stayed home. I'm one of those big dummy's who's scared of the bombs and a bunch of people shooting up a crowd. You know, trying to make their "forever" mark. I got kids, I'd rather be here for them, than going out there being stupid. And celebrating it alive!

FCF: Is there anything else you would like to add?
EJ: No, thanks for the interview. It feels neat doing this kind of stuff, because I never expected it. It feels weird. [laughs].

FCF: Thanks for your time and good luck to you and the other Gladiators.
EJ: Take care. Happy New Year.

You can check out the Gladiator Training Academy on the web at www.gladiatorsgta.com or stop by the Gladiators Training Academy, 1111 Arguello Street, Redwood City, CA 94062, (650) 361-9923.