The man known as Luis Limao has been a fixture alongside the legendary Rickson Gracie for as long as Rickson has been in the US. It is strange that a Brazilian with an apelido (nickname) meaning "lemon" would be the man who Rickson hand-picked to come to America with him and place in charge of his main academy located in Santa Monica, California. While Rickson was away training for and fighting in Japan, Luis made sure that the academy was in order and business was going on as usual. Recently, Luis uprooted himself from California and moved to the island of Maui in Hawaii. No he has not retired from Jiu-Jitsu and moved to Hawaii to live out his retirement years. He is still teaching Jiu-Jitsu, the art that he loves, but this time the scenery is a little nicer than it was before. I caught up with Luis to find out why he moved to Hawaii and gain some insights into the Gracie family during the mid 90's when Royce and Rickson were dominating MMA in the US and Japan, from a man who is as close as anyone can be with the Gracie family without having the last name being Gracie.

FCF: First off, how did you get the nickname Limao?
Luis "Limao" Heredia: Well, it was a name given to me a long time ago. People used to think that I was pretty bitter when I was growing up, so people decided to give me that nickname and it stuck.

FCF: Limao means Lemon in Portuguese. So they gave you that name because you were sour all the time?
LH: Yes, some bitterness. Growing up I was a little bit rough.

FCF: How did you get involved with BJJ?
LH: I started Jiu-Jitsu when I was 16 [years old], that was 24 years ago. A lot of kids my age were doing it and it was kind of the thing to do. It was the cool thing to do. I got that urge to do Jiu-Jitsu, to be cool and to learn how to fight.

FCF: How did you end up training with Rickson Gracie?
LH: I first started off with Oswaldo Alves in Brazil and then I jumped to Carlson Gracie's school. From there I stayed a little bit and one day some of my friends were training with Rickson and I met him at the beach. I was pretty much good friends with Royler as well. He always invited me to come and train with him, so I decided to go down and take the chance and train with them and since that day, I never left.

FCF: What made Rickson's academy better than the other two academies that you came from. Why did you stay?
LH: At that time, there weren't many options [to train]. And it always seemed like the best option was a Gracie school. There was Carlson and other cousins and Carlos and a number of others. I guess because of his fighting. He had just done the NHB match with Zulu and he wins all the Jiu-Jitsu tournaments. You want to be with the best and it was fun to see him train in private. And to make a connection with him was cool.

FCF: What year was that?
LH: I guess that was in 1982 or '84.

FCF: What was training like back then? It is probably a lot different than it is now.
LH: I try to follow the evolution of the sport. It was different. The fashion of Jiu-Jitsu [back then] was there was very little ego involved. It was just the beginning. It was just trying to be part of a cool new sport and something very powerful to learn. Jiu-Jitsu would be translated to that same sort of image, where training was fun and people just wanted to roll. There was no sponsorship, no money in involved. It was just for the love of the game. So everybody in tournaments wore white gis with no sponsors. The rules were different, so the game was a little bit faster. Not much stalling or holding. There are so many little tricky points that a fighter today scores and holds the fight. Of course, I clearly notice the evolution of Jiu-Jitsu, but the basics of Jiu-Jitsu is still there. No matter how many tricks you do, they are all based in competition situations. If you take those points away and go back to the Jiu-Jitsu itself, it becomes fun again. Do you know what I am trying to say? I have to update myself and I think that everyone from my time should update themselves and that's it. That is one thing that this new generation doesn't have from the past. As a teacher today, I still believe in teaching what I learned as the basics, but I can see, feel and understand the new changes of the game right now.

FCF: People always ask me if Rickson is really that good and what makes Rickson so good. I always sum it up by saying "flawless execution of technique." There are great fighters and great teachers. Iin your opinion after being with him for so many years, is Rickson as good a teacher as he is a fighter?
LH: Chris let's put it this way. My relationship with Rickson might be a little bit different than everyone else. It is my personal opinion, but I believe that he is as good a teacher as he is a fighter. I was lucky enough to be one who understands his teachings and got it in different ways, not only in the fighting way. As a whole master, a whole person, he showed me all aspects of life and the game. That is why is he is a great teacher.

FCF: A lot of people don't know, but you were the first person who was not a member of the Gracie family to be invited to come to the US with them to spread the art. Tell us why you were chosen?
LH: Let's start from the beginning. I got lucky. It was a lucky moment at that point in my life where I started to build my relationship with my instructors and gain their trust and desire to come to the US. I was showing a lot of effort in tournaments and classes as well. I got to be the chosen one, the lucky one to be there. It was a long time ago. It was over 14 years ago and I came as a purple belt. I worked hard as a blue belt and after 6 years, I got my purple belt and had a lot of homework to do. Let's put it that way.

FCF: Tell us about the early days of BJJ in the US?
LH: In a financial way, it was a bit of a struggle, but it was very fun because nobody knew [Jiu-Jitsu]. So I could say that it was easy to show the art because of that. People would come and say "wow, this skinny guy can do this and that." All of that was pretty funny. It was also pretty rough in the sense that we had a lot of prove. It was easier shots, but many of them. It was pretty drastic that we had to go through many challenges through the day and the week.

FCF: Rickson lives his life like a modern day Samurai. I know that in the very first seminar that I attended of his over 9 years ago, Rickson told us something that changed my outlook on the martial arts and gave me insight into being a Gracie. He said that he only eats small meals because he has to be prepared at all times to fight. This was after he submitted every one of the 75 plus seminar attendees one after the other, some more than once. In fact, he submitted my brother, Mike and I, three times that day and he never got angry or pissed that we would try our luck again and again. Tell us a couple of your personal stories of Rickson's life as a Samurai.
LH: I heard that a lot and can pretty much relate to that statement. There are so many stories. One of them was when he fought at the beach in Rio against Hugo [Duarte]. There was a big controversy about Jiu-Jitsu at this point and a lot of people were trying to put Jiu-Jitsu down. And Rickson was the one that had to step up and pretty much represent all of Jiu-Jitsu. And another time is when I had to wake him up when I called him from the school. Yoji Anjo came up to the school and that was a very interesting situation where he really tried to be professional in the sense of having lawyers, but he was discussing these issues in his pajamas, which was how he came to the academy. Basically in his sweat pants and a t-shirt in the winter time. When he felt the disrespect for himself, the art and the whole community, the professional side of him went away and he got very instinctive. You know what I am saying? And finally, also the way that he would fight in Jiu-Jitsu tournaments. He would try to establish dominance or power which was very effective by trying to finish fights in less that a minute. That was pretty nice to see as well.

FCF: What were the feelings of the Gracie camp leading up to the first UFC? Was Royce or the rest of the family nervous, especially because this would be Royce's first "official" fight?
LH: For me, it was a thrill because, first of all, this was the first time that a show like this was put on in the US. And for me to be that close to such an event and such fighters, it was very emotional, very cool, very nice to see. Even though the show is not as big as it was before and the fighters of today are tough, but they do not have to fight as much as the previous fighters. I don't recall the family being nervous. The family was just very aware. You know, you have been around Relson for a long time, the family has that in their blood. Nervous? I guess everybody gets it, but they pretty much know their role in the fight. That is one good thing to be related to these people because you can see the trust and confidence in what they are going to do.

FCF: Tell us why Royce was chosen to represent the Gracie family in the UFC instead of Rickson?
LH: I think the family felt that Royce could get the job done. Rickson would be too much of a disadvantage for the other fighters. His body is bigger and people would probably get a little more convinced by Royce than Rickson.

FCF: A little over a year after Royce appeared in the first UFC, Rickson competed in the Vale Tudo Japan Open in 1994 and 1995. Can you give us some insights into Rickson's preparation leading up to those events? The Choke documentary showed a little, but can you add to that?
LH: As he always is, he is a very focused person. He took six months leading up to the event to prepare. That was his first time in Japan and he took it very seriously and he trained very hard, as seen in Choke. He spent a lot of time training in LA with his students and Japan a couple months earlier, just getting focused. He did the job, the way only he could do it.

FCF: What was it like right after Royce's historic fight with Kimo at UFC 3? How did everyone react?
LH: That was a very interesting fight because he was a heavy, strong and different opponent than Royce has seen before. It wasn't so quick or convincing as before, so it made everyone more aware of the kind of preparation, I guess. It was just a little bit of a surprise, but it was about the time that people started studying what we are doing, so it was a little acceptable as well. Not in the sense of being worried about it. Let's just try to be prepared for that kind of situation the next time.

FCF: You recently packed up everything and moved to Maui. Why the drastic move?
LH: That is a great question. I wanted to let everyone know that I had a great passion and love for this place. I have been coming here for quite a while, maybe 7 or 8 years. I have always been trying to figure out a way to live here, so finally I paid all my dues in LA and learned a lot about Jiu-Jitsu that would allow me to come and establish a place in Maui.

FCF: So many people travel far distances to come and train with Rickson. I have heard of numerous accounts from fighters training at Rickson's academy only to leave because they never saw Rickson, much less got an opportunity to train with him. From being so close to Rickson to moving and living in Maui, can you explain why you left a position which many of us would dream of having?
LH: I see myself as very lucky from the beginning and I see that life has a beginning, middle and end. As a disciple of him, I learned a lot from him. I trained a lot with him. I felt that I should pursue my dream of opening my own school and to live in a different place that I was living. It's not that hard because I am always in contact with him and in a matter of fact, I am going to spend five days with him, which is very important because I am in a phase right now that I feel like I have to reach to my instructor right now, more than I need to instruct. One of the things was to spread his teachings to the world and to different people and extend the way he thinks and distribute everything that I got from him and God.

FCF: Romolo Barros, another Rickson black belt, is on Maui also. Why did you choose to move to Maui and how are things working out between the two of you?
LH: From all the places that I traveled, I saw a lot of space for Jiu-Jitsu on Maui, so I came. I came and spoke to Romolo quite a few times about it and he pretty much gave me his view and I came over to look for myself also and see if there was enough opportunity for Jiu-Jitsu here in Maui. I am going to the mainland to teach a few seminars and spend some time with Rickson and when I come back I am going to look for a permanent place for my school.

FCF: You have seen BJJ grow in the US almost from the very beginning. Tell us your opinion about BJJ's growth over the years, the good, the bad and the ugly.
LH: I see mostly the good of Jiu-Jitsu. Sometimes it grows in different ways that we cannot control. But overall, the growth of Jiu-Jitsu is amazing. It has given an opportunity now for a lot of people to work, especially from Brazil and I am glad that I came here a long time ago and am one of the pioneers. I feel like I don't have much competition for me no matter what. It's just a feeling, a good feeling of being here for quite a while and speaking the language pretty well, but most of all being able to teach for Rickson for all this time to bring about good feelings and develop my trust in God.

FCF: We just got back from Brazil and after talking with some Brazilian locals who have nothing to do with BJJ, I could not believe how badly BJJ is seen amongst the general public. We read about all of this and hear about it from the BJJ fighters, but I did not get a true feeling until I was actually there. Most Brazilians think that BJJ guys are violent people. After having a friendly conversation, I told that person that I do Jiu-Jitsu, their attitude seemed to change to be slightly afraid of my towering 5'7", 165lbs frame. Do you think that this will ever happen in the US? How do you think most people in the US view BJJ?
LH: I guess it can happen. It happens in a small sense. Sometimes Jiu-Jitsu grows in different ways, growing into a different crowd. People who don't understand how powerful Jiu-Jitsu is and the purpose of it. In a small scale it happens everywhere. In Brazil, I guess because it is such a big part of the culture, people like to accept that it is pretty cool to walk tough and act tough.

FCF: Where do you see BJJ heading in the future?
LH: I think that hopefully it will become an Olympic sport. That is what we all wished from the very beginning.

FCF: What do you feel needs to be done to head down the right path?
LH: As I said to you at Relson's tournament, not because of his tournament, but in general, we need a panel of referees where everybody understands the same rules, so there is no complaining or confusion, such as walking on the mat or calling the ref bad names. Just a little better organization and a better understanding from the general public because the people putting on these events are pretty good, solid Jiu-Jitsu people.

FCF: Anything else you would like to add?
LH: Just that my intention from the very beginning is to help Jiu-Jitsu spread in this country and especially on the island of Maui, where I am right now. I just hope that people come and check us out and we can help them in their preparation for themselves or their fighting.

FCF: Why don't you give us some contact numbers to get in touch with you and your academy?
LH: They can call me at (808) 357-0657 or call Chris Nardy, my assistant, at (808) 250-9139. My email is luislimao@aol.com.

FCF: Thank you very much and good luck with your school.
LH: Thank you very much brother.