Allan Goes has always been willing to test himself against the best fighters and has never been known to back down from a challenge. Goes has proven himself in BJJ tournaments and in NHB against the toughest opponents out there. He has always shown that he can not only compete with the best, but must be included as one of the top fighters. He has fought fighters who are currently at the top in NHB, guys like Frank Shamrock, Kazushi Sakuraba, and Dan Henderson. He was among the top fighters from the Carlson Gracie competition team, until recently when Goes and almost all of Carlson's top fighters were kicked off the team by Carlson himself. Goes has only fought once in the past two and a half years, until marking his return with a victory against Lion's Den fighter, Vernon "Tiger" White. It was well past the time to check up on Goes and get his thoughts on what he has been doing, his recent fight at Pride, and the situation surrounding Carlson Gracie. It was an experience trying to catch up to Allan, but I finally got a hold of him on August 12, 2000 in Brazil.

FCF: How have you been?
Allan Goes: I've been pretty good. I have been training…training hard. I got hurt, but I feel much better now.

FCF: Have you been training with the Brazilian Top Team?
AG: Yeah, me, Murilo [Bustamante], Vitor [Belfort], Carlao [Barreto], Mario Sperry, [Ricardo] Arona, and all those other guys.

FCF: Congratulations on the new addition to your family. [Goes had a baby recently]
AG: Yeah, I got a new addition to my family. Thanks.

FCF: Let's get into your background. When did you come to the U.S. and why did you get into fighting?
AG: The first time that I came over to the US was in 1993. I lived over there because I had an opportunity, when I was 22 years old, to live in the US. I wanted to learn how to speak English. And after a year I had so many friends in the US and such a great reception from everybody, I decided to stay for a long time. I stayed for about 7, almost 8 years. Then I began to fight. I had my first professional fight in Japan. I fought Frank Shamrock, then I fought and won in two Extreme Fighting events. In between the two Extreme Fighting events, I fought and won in Extreme Challenge. After that, I fought [Dan] Henderson [in UFC 17] and [Kazushi] Sakuraba, then I fought and won two times in Pride [against Carl Malenko and Vernon "Tiger" White]. I fought in a few Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and won all the titles in Brazil. I never lost in my category. I only lost one time in Jiu-Jitsu, in the open [weight] category. I decided to go into fighting because I had nothing to prove anymore in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I won all the titles that I could, so I decided to do the real thing.

FCF: How long have you trained in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and what is your current rank?
AG: I am a 4th degree black belt. I started training with my grandfather when I was 8 years old. Right before my grandfather passed away, when I was 15 years old, he sent me to Carlson Gracie. Then I began to train harder than I had ever done before.

FCF: What was it like training under Carlson?
AG: I had a good time training with Carlson, as an amateur. I had a lot of fun. Carlson was younger back then, he dedicated himself to us a lot, like we did for him. We trained real hard and won many titles together. We had a great team, like we still have. We don't have Carlson, but we still have the same team as before, we just don't have Carlson around us anymore because he changed his mind. He wants so many things now. We used to agree with everything he said, but we've all grown up and become professionals and he wanted to have discussions about everything. Today, we are not the same kids as we were before. We grew up, we learned new things, we want to do everything the right way. We don't live in the dictatorship anymore like it used to be. We loved that, but today, like I said, everybody's a professional and everybody has a family to take care of, and nobody is able to live under the dictatorship anymore.

FCF: Let's talk more about that. You recently joined the growing list of top fighters that have been suspended from the Carlson Gracie competition team. What happened?
AG: It was one by one, for Murilo it was for one thing, for me it was another. It was different things for all of us. Murilo tried to take Carlson to Japan, but Carlson said that the Ultimate [Fighting Championship] doesn't pay well and didn't want to go. Then Murilo went with the other guys and he [Carlson] got mad because he didn't want Murilo to fight in the Ultimate, so he kicked Murilo out and the other guys that went with Murilo to Japan. For me, I offered him everything. My problem wasn't about money, because I have great respect for him. He is like a father to me. My problem was training with my friends. He said you cannot train with Murilo, Liborio, with all those other guys. I kicked them all out. You cannot train with them anymore. I said, "Carlson, they were my friends since I was a kid. We always trained together." Then he said, "if you train with them, then I will kick you out too." I said, man, I am paying you whatever you want. I have to keep training with my friends. I asked him to tell me why can't I keep training with my friends? He said that he wanted to dedicate himself to me and correct your mistakes. If I train with them, then he will not be able to see my mistakes. He wanted to watch my training. I said okay, then I will train with you, but I want to take them [Murilo, Liborio, and Bebeo] to Japan to be my sparring partners. I won't train with them, I will only train with you, but I want them with me in Japan to be in my corner and help me out. Then he said that I cannot take them. I understand why I cannot train with them, because he wants to watch me train, but I cannot take them to be in my corner? Carlson told me that I am going to take who he wants. Man, it doesn't work like that. I take who I feel good to train and be around. I told Carlson that I have to give up a few things and you have to give up a few things. We have to make everything right. I cannot just do what you want, but when I want to make myself feel good when I fight, you don't want to allow me to. I step in the ring to fight! I have to feel good about my sparring partners! I'm not going to take whoever you want. I respect your decision and everything and I give you everything that you want, but it doesn't work like that. I trained with Murilo my whole life. Murilo understands my game and Murilo is one of the greatest mentors that I have. Carlson is my mentor and Murilo is my second mentor. Murilo makes my mind good. He makes me ready to be there and to fight. He makes me strong. I feel good when they are next to me, Murilo, Liborio, one of those guys, because we work together hard. We used to be great partners since we were kids and I don't want to change that and take whoever Carlson wants. You know what I mean? I told Carlson that I need to take those guys. He said that if I take those guys then you're out. So, I said, okay, then I'm out. I told him, you can train me, but I have to have my sparring partners. I need those guys. We understand each other. That's the only guys I trust, next to you. I don't trust anyone else. The other guys got suspended for different reasons, like because they didn't want to give him the percentage he wants. I gave him everything he wanted, everything, he just kicked me out because I want Murilo and Liborio in my corner.

FCF: What do you feel is going on all of a sudden with Carlson?
AG: I can only speak for myself, I cannot speak for Carlson because I don't know what is going through his mind. I think that you get to a certain age…I don't know if he is able to speak for himself. A lot of people took advantage of that. There are a few guys now, that took advantage of Carlson because he is getting old and a few guys that never had exposure in the sport, never fought before, that don't know anything, should be telling Carlson to make things right, get everyone back together, but they did the opposite. They are kiss ass guys. There are a few guys that act like they're the second coach now. They were nobodies. They are just big kick asses, you know what I mean? One black belt, who I don't want to give his name because I don't want to give him any credibility because he's a nobody, kisses Carlson's ass the whole time and never fought in his life. Even his own students who fought for him like Jucao [Juan Carneiro] and Elson [Matos], they used to be this guy's students, even they don't want him to be in their corner. They told me so. I don't want to say this guy's name, you're going to find out. He tried to take advantage of the situation.

FCF: All of the former Carlson Gracie members have formed a team of their own, the Brazilian Top Team. Tell about this team and how it formed?
AG: We got together because he kicked everybody out, even a few guys that wanted to stay with him because those guys used to come and train with us. Let's stay together, we are a family, only Carlson Gracie doesn't want to be part of us. He wants to make his own team. Now, the Brazilian Top Team is stronger than ever! We are much stronger, we train twice as hard than we used to train. You seen the result, my fight in Pride, Carlos Barreto fought in Pride, Vitor Belfort fought in Pride and we all won. Ricardo Arona fought in RINGS and he won, Murilo fought in Japan and he won, every time, it's getting better and better. Mario Sperry fought in Japan and he won. Our results are great! I have nothing to complain about. We never won so many titles in Japan, since we got the Brazilian Top Team together.

FCF: You have fought only once in the last 2½ years [against Carl Malenko] until this fight with Vernon "Tiger" White. Why haven't you fought more often?
AG: I just signed a one year contract with Pride, before that we came and negotiated verbally and fought one match. Now we are going to do more of that, with my contract, I will be fighting more often.

FCF: Did they guarantee you a minimum number of fights?
AG: Yeah, they did. I have three more fights for Pride.

FCF: What have you been doing during that time?
AG: I have been training, man. I have been dedicating myself and learning more and more positions and techniques. With the Brazilian Top Team, we have been developing new things and techniques. We are very open minded to learning to things. We are not just training Jiu-Jitsu, of course, Jiu-Jitsu is the basic foundation for the martial arts. Jiu-Jitsu started a revolution all over the world. It proved to the whole world that it is the basic foundation, like Royce showed to the whole world. Then, everybody started learning Jiu-Jitsu, so we have to learn other martial arts.

FCF: Tell us about your fight with Vernon White at Pride. What did you expect going in and how did you adjust your game because you were previously scheduled to fight Guy Mezger?
AG: Yes, I was supposed to fight Guy Mezger, but I believe Guy got hurt. Mr. White stepped up to fight me. I have a lot of respect for Mr. White, he's a great fighter. I have great respect for all those guys at the Lion's Den. They are all awesome. They have a lot of strategies to fight against Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu guys and wrestling guys. They got a great team over there. My strategy for Mr. White was to punch and kick because I trained in it a lot to dominate him because he expected me to take him down to the ground. That's not my game. If I have to take him down, I would. But if I can punch or kick him, I will do that too. Whatever he wants to do. If I have to play on the feet, on the ground, on the take down, like I said, Brazilian Top Team has a very open mind to learn everything. My primary strategy was, of course, to use Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and take him to the ground and dominate him and control him, but he is a very slick guy on the ground. I cannot give me much space because he knows how to move. He has a lot of experience. He has fought one hundred times more than I did. He fought in Pancrase many times and he knows how to fight on the ground. He knows how to punch and kick. So my game was punch him, kick him and take him to the ground. If I could not take him down, then I would exchange punches with him because I am not afraid, I have been training man!

FCF: After the fight you formally challenged Kazushi Sakuraba. Tell us why you did this?
AG: Actually, he challenged me before and I just accepted his challenge. It would be my honor to fight Sakuraba.

FCF: You fought Sakuraba to a draw back in Pride-4 [10/11/98]. Since then, Sakuraba has risen to the top of the middleweight ranks. Tell us about that fight?
AG: Sakuraba was ranked number one back then. It was a great fight. He's a great warrior. We beat each other up, but our fight was supposed to be 5 rounds, 10 minutes each. It was supposed to be almost one hour. Then when we got in Japan, they [Pride] changed it to an half an hour fight. Before we fought, they [the Japanese] thought that Sakuraba was going to eat me alive. He fought a few guys like Carlos Newton, he submitted him, Vernon White, he submitted Conan from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and he beat a few other guys, then he got big. When I fought him, everybody thought that he would beat me, but we fought 30 minutes to a draw, but I dominated the whole fight. I have great respect for Sakuraba, but the only thing that makes me upset about him is that, in an interview, he said that he won't fight me because he beat me. Everybody that watched the fight and knows anything about martial arts saw that he lost the fight. He, himself knows that he lost the fight because he was the only one who was crying after the fight. Everybody around the ring saw him crying. I think of him as a warrior, but what he said made me upset. I think that he doesn't remember what happened in that fight. He took me down a few times, but I pounded him from the bottom. We beat each other up, but if there was a judge's decision, I definitely know that I would have been the winner.

FCF: Sakuraba has beaten a lot of guys. What do you think about Sakuraba's success?
AG: I think Sakuraba is a good fighter. I think he is awesome. I have no doubt about that. When I fought him, I knew he was a great fighter. Many people underestimate me when I fought him and when I fought Frank Shamrock in Japan. They thought that I would lose to one of them. All of the Japanese people thought that he would beat me because he got big in Japan and beat so many good people. And even Sakuraba told me after the fight that he surprised me. He didn't expect that I would fight like that and dominate the fight like that. He told me after the fight that he knows he lost and said that he really wants to fight me again. Even the last time that I went to Japan, he said that they [Pride] should make him fight with me in the main event. Sakuraba said that he wants his revenge. I said "right on, it would be my pleasure to fight you." I'm not chasing him, he has to chase me, like Frank Shamrock, I beat him and he has to chase me. I don't pick my fights. I will fight anybody. They know what happened in the fight.

FCF: You also fought Frank Shamrock in Pancrase. Tell us about that fight?
AG: I can just describe one thing about that fight. I was by myself in Japan, I had no corner man. He went with his father, with his brother, his whole family was in Japan. He knew everything there, he had fought there many times. That was my first time in Japan. I didn't know where I could go to eat, to drink, I didn't know anything. I was by myself. I'm a warrior man! If I have to do that, then I'll do that because I was born by myself. Ken Shamrock threw the fight for him. If it wasn't for his brother, he would have lost because I choked him out. Then he grabbed my foot and I escaped. I rolled and, you can watch the tape, I did not even think about touching one rope to escape with the rules that they have over there. I didn't even know the rules well. In my heart, I don't think about tapping out. You can break my arms, you can break my bones, because that's my game. I'm used to it because of Jiu-Jitsu. I don't feel pain because when I step on the mat, I give my spirit, I give my whole heart. He tried to ankle lock me…he did ankle lock me, but like the Japanese magazines and TV asked me, "hey Allan, you didn't show any expression on your face, when he got you in that ankle lock." I said, hey man, I'm prepared for that. I train hard for that. Ken Shamrock called it an escape. Ken Shamrock put pressure on the judge to call it an escape. I did not even think about that. An escape is when you put your hands or your foot on the rope. I did not do anything like that, like he did. I choked him out! I grabbed his neck and choked him out! He was about to pass out. He shook his head and slapped his face many times to make sure that he was there. At the end of the fight, I was about to choke him out again. I mounted him and pounded him. I dominated the whole fight. If you saw the tape, you would see that. I have a great respect for him, but he lost that fight. Another thing that upset me is that Frank keeps saying that he beat me, but he lost to me in Pancrase.

FCF: You have three fights coming up in Pride. Have any opponents been named yet?
AG: No, not yet. I am just waiting for the promoter's decision. Mr. Kawasaki is in Brazil, including Chiba, whom I just met. I spoke with him, but he doesn't have anything in mind yet.

FCF: Who would you like to fight?
AG: In Pride, in particular, I would like to fight Sakuraba again. Mainly because Sakuraba is the biggest name in Japan and we are part of the same organization. Other than that, I will fight anybody. Like I said, I don't have to chase him, he knows what happened when we fought, he has to chase me.

FCF: How much longer do you want to continue to fight because you're a fairly young guy?
AG: Yeah, I'm 28 man! I want to fight until God says, "hey that's enough." As long as my body can take the beating.

FCF: What are your future plans?
AG: My future plans are to train and train and train and dedicate myself to my club and my new sponsor, Vasco de Gama. That's my club's sponsor and [the government of] Rio de Janeiro is also my sponsor. Vasco de Gama has a great passion for sports. They brought me back to Brazil and said, "hey man, you are our athlete and we will take care of you because you have to train hard and you cannot be teaching and training." I told them that I appreciate that because I don't really have enough time to teach. About 6 months ago, I was going back and forth, teaching and training until Vasco de Gama and the government of Rio de Janeiro said, "you're not going to teach anymore, you're just going to train." At the same time, I would like to send a message to all my students in the United States. I am sorry that I had to leave them and go back to Brazil. I want to tell them that I will come back and teach them and develop my teachers in the US in the future because that's the feeling in my heart right now. I feel like I left my sons by themselves, but I still love them.

FCF: Thank you.
AG: Thank you my friend, call me anytime.