About three years ago, I was fortunate enough to meet Judo Gene LeBell at the 1996 Pan American Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Tournament in California. As anyone who has met Gene will agree, he is one of the nicest and funniest people you are ever going to meet. He was nice enough to invite me, along with a couple of my friends, to one of his student's dojo to train. Not one to miss a chance to train with a legend or brave enough to tell Gene LeBell no, I accepted his gracious offer. We followed Gene's directions into Hollywood, where we found out the student he was talking about was none other than Gokor Chivichyan. Most people would know of the Armenian-born Gokor Chivichyan, from his guest appearance as a referee for Battlecade: Extreme Fighting or from gracing the pages of many martial arts magazines. Gokor has been a competitor since the age of eight and has amast an impressive resume with includes Soviet and European Judo Champion, Junior World Champion in both Judo and Sambo, and numerous NHB victories.

Upon entry into Gokor's school, we saw an impressive collection of trophies and medals and were greeted by Gokor and Gene. They told us, along with the rest of the class, a few of the dojo "rules." One of the rules is when one of the instructors is going to teach a technique, the last one to line up gets thrown by one of the instructors. Needless to say, my friends and I were fast enough to avoid breaking that rule. Another rule was to leave your ego at the door. Judo Gene summed this rule up by the saying "Attitude adjustments are at no additional cost." I enjoyed my time there and learned a few "tricks" that my training partners back home didn't appreciate too much. I haven't seen Gene or Gokor since, until our pathes crossed again on October 15, 1999 at Rage In The Cage II in Honolulu, Hawaii, where Gokor offered his services as a guest referee.

FCF: What are you doing at Rage In The Cage?
Gokor Chivichyan: They invited me as a guest and asked me if I could do a little refereeing because of my experience.

FCF: What did you think of the event?
GC: It's incredibly good. It was very organized and it looks like everybody was very happy. I talked to a couple people and they were very happy. The fighters were middle quality, like you can see, but it's getting better and better.

FCF: What are your thoughts on the last match between Marcelo Tiger and Joe Charles?
GC: I tried to give Joe Charles a lot of direction and he did very well up to the last minute. Then somehow he dropped himself, I think he just gave up because he was tired. If he could of held on for another minute, he would have been the winner [of that round] because he was the controller all of the time. But something happened to him in the last 20 seconds, where he tapped out. We don't really understand why, well, actually we understand that he was tired, but I think that he could have held on for another 20 seconds. The winner won and that's it.

FCF: A lot of people have seen you in Extreme Fighting, as the referee and have seen your face, but if they're not well-read they won't really know you. Can you tell us about your background and your titles?
GC: Right now everybody knows that I'm not fighting because…a little bit my age and I'm trying to live a happy life. I started training at 5 years old. I started training in Sambo. I was was a kid of course, I also took Judo at the same time. I started doing tournaments when I was eight. And I started winning a lot of kid's things like the Soviet National Championship in Sambo and Judo. When I was 10 years old, I decided to do more, so I started doing kids NHB, which was running in Armenia. I was winning all the time, even with kids 3-4 years older than me. I grew up like that. When I was like 14 years old, I started fighting in the Sambo National Championships in my age, winning most of the time, Judo, same thing. I won a couple European Championships, Junior World Championships, Sambo World Championships a couple times, and I started doing some boxing because I saw that my hands have to be a little bit faster than what it's supposed to be when I'm doing NHB. And that's how my life ended up. When I was 16 years old, I moved to the United States. I had a difficult time because of the language and it being a new country. So I ended up finding a place to train. First I found a Jiu-Jitsu place, then a Judo place. I didn't even know what was happening here. Someone said that you can make money fighting and I was a bit hectic and an aggressive kid when I was in my country, looking for trouble all the time. I was always looking for someplace to be and to fight, so it interested me a lot. Some of them were small, some big, some out of the country like Japan, Mexico, Canada, inside the United States, some in Russia, some back in Armenia. I just started fighting where I could and as much as I could, like every other week. You know, with different stylist and different people. I met a lot of people and won a lot of matches. In Japan, we had the World Championships a couple times and I won all my matches in less than a minute, some less than 25 seconds, very quick. Everybody knew me as the quickest leg lock player. I would just finish everyone with a very fast leg lock, nobody really understood how to escape, what to do and stuff like that.

On meeting the Gracies:

Around that time, I met a couple Jiu-Jitsu guys. At that time, nobody really knew Jiu-Jitsu. I met a couple of Gracies. They were doing some Judo tournaments, and they were playing in Judo tournaments at that time. They were in my weight division and I never lost in those tournaments. Well, I don't know if I fought them or not. I don't want to say something that I don't remember. They invited me to their school and they asked me how do you do this and how do you do that. We just started exchanging things and they showed me a lot of respect. Then somehow they turned from Gracie to Machado and I never understood what happened. We have become very good friends and showed each other things. That's the way my whole life has been, being respectfull and respecting others.

How he got into teaching:
In 1989, I fought one match and I knocked the guy out and he got paralyzed. After that, I was thinking about not fighting anymore. I had another job and I was making lots of money. And fighting was just a habit for me, I just liked to fight. There wasn't very much money in it at that time. As soon as I got a good job and I stopped wanting to hurt myself, I decided to start teaching and stop fighting. A lot of years have passed since that time and I continued training, not for tournament, but just to train. I did a couple Judo tournaments, like in 1987, I won the Judo World Cup in Spain. I played a couple Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and won. A Sambo championship was in Canada, so I went there too. In 1992 and 1994, I won a Judo National Championship in Los Angeles, then I promised not to fight.

Gokor's last NHB fight in the World Fighting Federation:

Then the WFF, the World Fighting Federation invited me to fight a Japanese fellow, which has beaten a lot of champions and people. He has never fought in the United States because he always asked for more money. He challenged the Gracies, but he was never able to fight them. I think he may have fought one Gracie, I may be wrong. They offered me to fight with this guy and the money was right. I asked them to give me at least four months to train for this fight because I am enjoying my life. I have been suffering and training all my life, so I decided to enjoy life. I trained myself and I have a lot of students, over 40 to 50 good fighters. A couple of them are already world champions, grappling, Judo, Sambo, Pan American Jiu-Jitsu champions, so we do really good in our studio. I have Jovany Varela here next to me right now, an international champion in Judo. This is the guy who helped me a lot to train, sometimes being my punching bag, sometimes being the guy who gives me the hardest training. He's a very tough guy himself. I prepared myself with my students in 1997, August I think. In the World Fighting Federation, my fight was the main event, a super fight with the Japanese fellow. It took me 51 seconds to arm bar him. Most of the pay-per-view companies showed the fight. I always promise not to fight, but something always comes up, you know. Right now, I respect all the fighters, doesn't matter if their students or professionals.

Thoughts about fighters and trash talkers:

The important part is that they have the heart to enter the fight, win or lose. Some people have attitudes or big mouths, I don't like that. Sometimes they like to talk and say "I beat this guy and I beat that guy." Most of those things are 100% not true. A lot of people come to train with me and I don't want to hurt them. They are friends or guests. I always go with them at their level, I don't go with them at my level because it will be too easy for me. I just play with them and show them this and that and 10 minutes passes. The next day I see on the Internet, "I fight with Gokor for 10 minutes and he could not do anything to me." People like that we respect them when they come to my school and we don't want to hurt them. In my school we are knowledgable technically, and nice people. None of my students have attitudes. If any of my students have attitudes, I will kick them out. I won't let them train with me. A lot of people come and train with me, a lot of actors, a lot of Brazilian players come over, a lot of people from all over the world. I do many seminars all over the world. I have 27 schools in Europe, even Russia is opening up and in my own country of Armenia. I am giving my style and giving to the people. I am trying to help out as much as I can. I taught a lot of the famous fighters in UFC and in Japan, most of the top names, you would know the guys. They just passed out of my school and most of them don't want to mention that they train at my school. That's okay with them, but I would like to see that if they come and train and learn something that they would mention it. It would be nice to hear say something like "thank you Gokor, you taught me this and I won today" or something like that. Then I would feel good. It's not just for my name or for everyone to know that I taught these guys and they became champions. It's just so I feel good, that I did something good for somebody. That's what I'm looking for. I consider that I can teach anyone at any level, from a world champion to a beginner.

Gokor's style and training fighters for NHB:

Most of the guys who say that this style is better or that style is better, my style is almost every style that is out there. We have Thai boxing, a lot of Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Sambo, a lot of everything. I don't believe there is a better syle than that. Nobody is able to say their style is the best. You look at the UFC or any other NHB event has proven that you need to learn how to punch and kick and grapple on the ground and grapple while standing up. You need to know everything. People who tell me that they want to do NHB, I tell them the number one thing is conditioning, that you can go as long as possible. The second thing is you have to be very technical, you know how to protect, you know how to do escapes and submissions. My second set of videos are coming out. It's going to cover levels 1 through 5 of my belt system.

How Gokor met Judo Gene LeBell:

Gene LeBell is my instructor, whom I met when I came to the United States and he helped me out a lot. I don't want to forget to mention that. I met him when I came to the United States for the first time in 1980 for the U.S. National Open Championship. I was a young kid at the time, but I fought in the senior team and I took first place. They gave me the best technique title. Because I was from the Soviet Union, Gene came up and talked to me, but I didn't understand a word he was saying. I didn't speak English at that time. Finally, someone came up and translated a little Russian so that I could understand him a little bit. He gave me his [business] card. When I came back to the United States the next year to live, I called and found out where he was. I told him "Gene, I have won many world championships, European championships, Soviet Union championships, national championships. How can you help me?" He showed me a technique and said "have you seen this before?" And I said, "well, I never saw that technique Gene." Okay, well you have to stay with me to learn then. It was not so much the techniques, but Gene is one of the most trustworthy people in the world. He's a very nice, no attitude, he only likes straight [talking] people. He doesn't like people who kiss each other's butts. I don't know if I can say that [in this interview]. Myself I am like that too. He doesn't like to put anybody down and I have learned a lot from him.

Gokor's thoughts about fighting and being famous:

I have fought a lot of fights, a lot of private fights, a lot of challenge fights. I fought the best fighters in the world. I don't want to mention the fighter's names. I take them out easy, like when I train with my students. They tell me Gokor why don't you fight now. I tell them, listen, I am making enough money now and I am very happy. I make more money teaching than you guys do fighting. I am teaching enough champions and they are paying me enough money for me to be happy. They fight and I have a family. I have two boys and I think that my family is more important than anything. Teaching my students are my other family, they are important to me. I have a big enough name. I don't want to be more than this. If the people recognize me or know of me, then good for them. If I think that I can help them, I will help them.

FCF: Your school has been doing very well in a variety of tournaments. How do you train your students that is different from other places? How do you make them so tough?
GC: A lot of people call me and ask me if I teach Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I say "no, my friend. I do not teach Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I teach Hayastan Jiu-Jitsu." They ask "what is the difference?" There's no difference, only we do more things. We do a lot of leg locks, heel hooks, ankle locks, chokes, with uniform, without uniform, everything else is the same. They ask "how come the Brazilian people say that only Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has these techniques?" [I tell them] "My friend, I respect Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. It's a beautiful art, but when I was 5 years old, I knew all of those techniques." It's not that I am trying to put down any art. I love every art. Nobody created anything, the only thing they created was a point system. Now they make Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu because they make another point system. Judo is a different game and a different point system. Sambo is a different game and a different point system. My students do all these things. Once they understand the point system, they fight in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and they win. Right now, we don't enter a lot of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments. I like a lot of the guys there. I have a lot of good friends there, but there are a lot of big mouths and no class people. Everywhere you go you can find people like that. Some of the tournaments we go to and win but some of the referees are from the same school [as our opponents] and they try to put anybody who is an outsider down. They always try to make their students win. I tell my students not to play with them, just finish them right away. Most of my champion students finished their opponents, that's why they're champions otherwise they don't have a chance. Sometimes they go face-to-face in NHB and my students win, no problem. They have top guys too, I don't want to put myself up [above them]. I don't want to say that I am the best teacher. I am a good teacher, but there are a lot of good teachers in other schools and other places.

I have over 450 students right now. It's a big school, but it is becoming small fast. I am thinking of opening one or two more, just to make it bigger. A lot of people who read this [interview] are welcome at my school as long as they come with a good heart, respect, and no attitude. If they are going to come with an attitude, it is better that they don't show up. We don't like that. I'm sure nobody likes that either. My guys do very well, they train hard. Most of my students are younger. They are growing up, the second generation is coming up. At 14 or 15, they are very strong. Another two years and we are going to have an incredible team. A lot of guys got married, some guys moved away…some guys go to jail, if those guys were still here, we would have three times a better team compared to everybody else. I just wish everybody luck, all the students stay healthy, and they stay in the sport as much as they can. It doesn't matter what sport they choose. It's just good to stay in sports. I love kids very much myself and I teach a lot of kids. I have 10 instructors who are working for me. And they are all my students are learning how to teach for the future.

FCF: As far as your teaching method, obviously you teach a lot of technique, but what do you concentrate on?
GC: We have different days with different training. Monday nights, Gene comes over and it's technical training. Tuesdays and Thursdays we do Judo for standing and Jiu-Jitsu and Sambo for ground, because from what I see for standing with the uniform, Judo is the number one sport in the world. There is nothing else that is comparable. Jiu-Jitsu is very good on the ground. Sambo is also very good on the ground. We do a lot of leg locks, heel hooks, a million other things that people don't realize. Sometimes I give seminars and teach techniques that people have never seen before. That's why I do a lot of seminars and they appreciate it. On Wednesday nights, we do No-holds barred. Everybody goes out with open arms and hit each other, just like what you saw tonite [at Rage In The Cage II]. Of course, the advanced kids to that, but the beginner kids learn how to grapple, roll, escape, and those things. We have on diferent days, trained with uniform or no uniform, so we learn how to fight with somebody that is sweaty or with someone wearing a t-shirt. With uniform, it is a lot more technical class, so they learn that. Most people train in both. I have friends that are boxers and they come over and teach boxing. I also send them over to my other schools. I did boxing for six years. I did Thai boxing for six years also. I teach them [my students] exactly how much I learned. But I know a lot of people are better than I am at striking, so I need their help too. That's what we do, complete training. Most guys train five to six days a week and are in unbelievable shape. They can go for two hours of non-stop fighting, no problem. When they are in a tournament, they never complain that they are tired. That's what I want to see. That's what I previously mentioned was the number one thing in fighting.

FCF: Is there anything coming up for you?
GC: For me, right now, people talk about a lot of things. Promoters are talking about me fighting Rickson for one million dollars. Like I said, I respect everybody, but for one million dollars, I don't care, I will fight anybody. If they give me six months, I can prepare to fight anyone, even though I am a little older than most people. But Rickson's and my age are approximately the same, and same weight division. It's not a challenge or anything. Some promoters they ask me if I will do it for a million dollars and I said yes. Then they said that they would talk to Rickson. And if he wants to do it then they will put us together. If it happens, then good. If it doesn't, no problem. Everything else in my life is teaching. Like I said before I have my videos coming out pretty soon. People can learn from them if they live far and come here for the [belt ranking] test and we can help them out.

FCF: How old are you right now?
GC: I am 36 years old right now. I weigh approximately 190 lbs. If I start training really hard, I would come in at 180 or 185 lbs. That's when I feel in good shape.

FCF: What belt rankings do you hold?
GC: Some people call and ask me strange questions like what my rank is, like that matters. Some people have respect for people with higher rankings. I have a 7th degree black belt in Judo, 6th degree black belt in Sambo, and a 5th degree black belt in Full Contact Karate. That's the kind of things I did before, like the Sabaki Challenge and stuff like that. And in my system, I am the only one who can test for belt rankings in Gene LeBell's World Grappling Federation. If people want to become members and hold our belt, we can help them and they can come train with us. If I'm not in town, they can always come over and train or stay. They can call and leave a message or just show up. My message machine will tell them the times and hours and everything. They can call with questions or anything that I can help them out with.

FCF: Great, thanks.
GC: Thank you, my friend.

Note: Gokor Chivichyan's Hayastan Studio is located at the Sunset Center, 5123 Sunset Boulevard, Hollywood, California 90027. His phone number is 213-660-5202. Gokor's web page is www.gokor.com and his student Jovany Varela's web page is www.jovany.com.